Any other users using Ableton as a guitar rig live?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
VicesLikeVipers
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Any other users using Ableton as a guitar rig live?

Post by VicesLikeVipers » Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:10 am

Alright, I've been messing around with it and I'm really liking what I can do with it.
I'm running some free pre-amp sims in ableton, and I'm able to get a bunch of different tones, like a 5150, a Mesa dual rec, and more.
The only problem I have with it is, I get a hissing noise. I'm not sure if it is because I'm using a rocksmith cable and not a interface? or if it is my computer or ableton?
I'm hoping it is just the cable, and about to pick up a line 6 POD Studio Ux2, or a Native Instruments Komplete audio 6 unit.

Any one else have this problem?
Post up how you run your rig as well if you like, I love seening what others are doing.

Machinesworking
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Re: Any other users using Ableton as a guitar rig live?

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:45 am

Run a noise gate before or after the pre amps, that should clean up your noise issue.
Often I run one on both sides if I'm going for a dirty metal sound.
I've mainly used Guitar Rig inside Live. I can't say I recommend it as I'm on the lookout for something less buggy when it comes to changing patches via program change messages sent from Live.

philipc
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Re: Any other users using Ableton as a guitar rig live?

Post by philipc » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:43 pm

The Rocksmith cable probably isn't of the highest quality. There's a good chance that's contributing some noise. But then again, guitars are always a bit noisy. A noise gate should help. If the noise is so loud that it's noticeable when you're playing then you've got a problem.

I just bought a Yamaha THR10c at the weekend. It's a practice amp with a USB connection and it sounds very, very nice. There's a smaller, cheaper version called the THR5 too. I highly recommend that for guitar sounds. It works perfectly with Ableton on my laptop and is very quiet, noise-wise. The only noise I get is from my single coil pickups (and the THR has a built in noise gate, conveniently). The way I was using it at the weekend was using the THR's modeling, routing that into Ableton via the USB connection, adding effects and using Looper and then routing it all back out to the amp's stereo speakers. Low latency, huge sounds.

VicesLikeVipers
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Re: Any other users using Ableton as a guitar rig live?

Post by VicesLikeVipers » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:44 am

I'll probably rewire my guitar as well, and reshield it also. It probably could use it hahaha. But I'm thinking it is mainly the cable, because it's a white noise type of sound.
Its bearable when I don't have a compressor, but when I throw a comp in the effects chain it brings up the white noise as well.
When I run my guitar through my other guitar rig (digitech GSP21 legend through a pa system or amp.) I don't have this problem.

The reason I'm messing around with this, is because I'm trying to pretty much make it a poor mans Axe FX 2, until I can afford to buy one hahaha.

I've been looking into getting Guitar Rig, How do you like it Machine?
I've also been thinking about getting Amplitube eventually.

philipc, that Yamaha amp sounds interesting, I may have to find one and try it out.

Machinesworking
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Re: Any other users using Ableton as a guitar rig live?

Post by Machinesworking » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:33 am

I like Guitar Rig, though I have a reoccurring issue with Guitar Rig not saving the user defined patch library, which means that you have to be super careful in a live environment using Live to change patches in Guitar Rig. This is pretty disappointing as they made a nice little footpedal, audio card, controller device for it called Rig Kontrol that I bought. I've ended up looming over the laptop to change patches in new songs etc.

I just got a copy of Amplitube Metal, which I've yet to mess around with. IMO the disappointing thing about Amplitube is it's all about selling you new features etc. and confusing to figure out... :?

There are a ton of other vendors out there too, so I'm going to find the one that properly support patch changes and sounds decent etc.
Maybe NI get their head out of their ass with Guitar Rig as well, but I'm sure the fix will come in a paid upgrade....

Gab
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Re: Any other users using Ableton as a guitar rig live?

Post by Gab » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:58 pm

I have Guitar Rig (got it for free thanks to the NI deal, having bought a KA6), and although it can be quite convenient and has some good presets, I'm not sure it's worth the full 179€ they ask for.

It has a ton of presets, some are good, some are meh. They are well-ordered, which is really convenient to find a good place to start before tweaking. Or you can just favorite a few ones (after trying them all — this can take a bit of time) and use them as you go-to presets if you find them good enough.

It's quite alright for clean and crunch sounds, but I find it harder to dial a saturated tone that does not sound "plasticky". High-gain tones on amps can sound find, but the dist/fuzz stompboxes are far from great. The built-in gate and tuner are convenient, also.

Nevertheless, I have just started using free amp sims (mainly LePou plugins) and I think that it's the way to go, at least for me. A few quality sims (lepou amps, some free impulses and stompbox emulations), plus effects from Ableton, and you should have something great. Build a few instrument racks, organize them into chains, and you may not have to buy anything else.

TLDR : there's a demo of Guitar Rig, so you can begin with that. You can get it for free if you buy a Komplete Audio 6 and register its software before the end of the year, also. But although it's a convenient plug-ing, you might be better off with other stuff, tone-wise.
Last edited by Gab on Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'If they act too hip, you know they can’t play shit.'

theophilus
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Re: Any other users using Ableton as a guitar rig live?

Post by theophilus » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:42 pm

i don't play live, or even anywhere much at all, so to save space i got rid of my old amp (a sunn sceptre w/simple 1x12 avatar cab) and just use my studio monitors/headphones (pair of old event 20/20bas) and am running guitar sims in live. hard to compare the sound... i thought it sounded better even running the guitar sim through the old amp, even when the amp was barely on (so pretty much running clean), but it was still going through the amp's eq and the cab, and i haven't had time to try to replicate that really. It still sounds decent though, and with some tweaking i've got some good sounds out of it. i think so far i tend to prefer the bass amps in pod farm, and the guitar amps in amplitube.

best part is that unlike stomp boxes or stomp multifx, you can use your high-end fx on your guitar... one of my chains includes black76, iieq pro, rp-delay, and valhalla shimmer, each one of which is far better than most stomp boxes or even most of what's in amplitube/pod farm.

Gab
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Re: Any other users using Ableton as a guitar rig live?

Post by Gab » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:42 pm

theophilus wrote:best part is that unlike stomp boxes or stomp multifx, you can use your high-end fx on your guitar... one of my chains includes black76, iieq pro, rp-delay, and valhalla shimmer, each one of which is far better than most stomp boxes or even most of what's in amplitube/pod farm.
Actually, the highly sought-after character of many stomp boxes comes from their imperfections, compared to most studio effects. But yeah, the flexibility of an in-box sim chain is really appreciated and with a bit of time and tweaking, it's totally possible to dial in great sounds.
'If they act too hip, you know they can’t play shit.'

ambientidm
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Re: Any other users using Ableton as a guitar rig live?

Post by ambientidm » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:04 am

my rig is a parker fly deluxe with gk3 running into vg99, stereo volume pedal, guitar rig, melda productions creative suite grm tools and b2 reverb

i'm not trying to emulate existing gear but create new sounds with strings

i'm am thinking about getting the softstep if it can control guitar rig container controls

VicesLikeVipers
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Re: Any other users using Ableton as a guitar rig live?

Post by VicesLikeVipers » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:16 am

Machine.
that sounds like it is really annoying. Hopefully they will have a fix for it soon.

Gab.
Yeah I've been told that the High gain amps aren't as good as most others.
Right now I'm just running free Amp Sims as well, I'm loving the LePou Le456, and The Ignite Amps NRR1.

Ambientidm, got any recordings of your work? it sounds pretty interesting.

ambientidm
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Re: Any other users using Ableton as a guitar rig live?

Post by ambientidm » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:53 am

VicesLikeVipers wrote:Machine.
that sounds like it is really annoying. Hopefully they will have a fix for it soon.

Gab.
Yeah I've been told that the High gain amps aren't as good as most others.
Right now I'm just running free Amp Sims as well, I'm loving the LePou Le456, and The Ignite Amps NRR1.

Ambientidm, got any recordings of your work? it sounds pretty interesting.
my current soundcloud is all synths but I should have new stuff up by january with guitar and live percussion

I like the Robin Guthrie guitar approach of simple parts layered and layered together
ableton's looper with guitar is fantastic btw

if i buy any more oriented guitar gear it will probably be the eventide eclipse

subsynth
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Re: Any other users using Ableton as a guitar rig live?

Post by subsynth » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:05 am

I use amp and cab for my guitar rig. There's a saturation and overdrive in the chain and a couple instances of delay for different rhythmic prests. (Quarter, dotted eighth, etc)

I group and macro several things together and limit their ranges. Turning up one knob adds gain, turns on Overdrive about 30 percent through, but turns the amp volume down a little as it starts to max. I have bass and treble knobs which all each interact with the eq and presence controls in amp to tweak a certain "useable" range.

It's pretty simple, clean to overdriven tone. Not metal, no modulation effects.

alexjholland
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Re: Any other users using Ableton as a guitar rig live?

Post by alexjholland » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:54 pm

Surely the single most important consideration is the quality of your soundcard; as well as having great pickups.

Working backwards from there, I find to get chunky rhythm tones and reasonably saturated lead, having my Crybaby 535Q on constantly; with the volume boost helps.

Of course, post Guitar Rig EQing makes a massive difference too.

It's important to remember that behind every great guitar tone, is usually a great bass tone too. You have some powerful options to explore with Live in that regard; and I find (being a better guitarist than I am a bassist) I get better results digitally too.

That said, I'm still not satisfied; particularly when it comes to getting a saturated lead tone. I've been streamlining and focusing my operation; and intend to tackle my guitar tone shortly. Currently I'm using a heavily customised SG with a Bare Knuckle Warpig; into my Crybaby; into my TC Electronic Konnekt 8 Soundcard; into Guitar Rig 3 with some high gain head and a Mesa-esque cabinet, followed by heavy EQing.

I've found a forum http://www.guitarampmodeling.com/I intend to spend some time on. I understand that, certainly for the time being, you will not beat a £2,000 German valve amp for power; but am confident I can improve what I have

Regarding your hum, have you checked your power supply? I intend to upgrade mine to a Berkey unit; but (as they don't hum like a cheap unit) you could switch in 9V batteries to see if it's the power supply causing issues.

sundog
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Re: Any other users using Ableton as a guitar rig live?

Post by sundog » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:56 pm

along these lines - wondering if there will be any improvements in Amp modeling / guitar effects in Live 9

the "Amp" effect straight up sounds like crap with real guitar, but it can do some interesting stuff with midi/synth based stuff

this is one reason I'm debating between upgrading my current Suite 8 to either Suite 9 or Standard 9 - if there will be any new stuff geared to guitar players... or if I should just invest in some more in amp modeling software from other companies

not much info about that stuff has been elaborated on thus far, though I know guitar is not Ableton's area of concentration

VicesLikeVipers
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Re: Any other users using Ableton as a guitar rig live?

Post by VicesLikeVipers » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:21 am

Ambientidm: I'll try and check it out once you get it up, it sounds like interesting stuff.

Subsynth: you set up sounds interesting. Do you use a controller to change settings?

Alexjholland: Yeah I'm working on getting a audio interface,and changing out my pickups for lace alumitones.
Oh yeah, having a great bass tone is very important, that is how meshuggah has such a great sounding mix.

How do you like the Bare Knuckle Warpigs? I haven't looked to much into them, just the aftermaths.

And about the power supply, yeah I have checked it and it is not my problem. It turns out to be mostly the cable, and a little bit of my guitar. But I did what Machine said, and put another gate at the end as well and that is no longer a big problem.

And thank you for posting that link, it is very helpful, I've been on that site almost every day now hahahaha.


Sundog, that is some thing I'm wondering as well.


By the way, has any one tried out the Kieth McMillen SoftStep? it seems like a really cool controller from the videos I've watched.

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