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 Post subject: From an 8-bar loop to ... a song
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:34 am
Posts: 179
Hello,

I know that lots of us have this problem: we can build some efficient 8 bar loops, but we are unable to build a complete song with them (with a nice begining, drops, breaks, with an end) :)

I'm actually looking for a number of tricks and for a setup that would enable me to build a structure/an arrangement "live" (with Launchpad, LPD8 rotary knobs, etc.).
(In the past I used to do arrangements with the mouse only, it worked, but now I want to bring more "live" feeling with controllers in order to build arrangements)

What are your favorite techniques for building a structure of a song ?

(rotary knobs for filter ? master track filter / reverb, snare rolls, drum fill-in, FXs, etc.)

Whare are your techniques for this ? Any youtube video of famous producer and their way to do this ?

Cheers everybody


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 Post subject: Re: From an 8-bar loop to ... a song
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:11 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:18 pm
Posts: 261
Location: Warsaw, PL
If You have a problem with building a sont, and at the same time constructing loops is for You an easy thing, why don't You just collect a big library of the loop projects and go for a mashup?

Simple as can be, when You consider a song as a 2 or 3 themes that correspond to each other, and create a kind of musical discussion.
Check this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHwVBirqD2s

0:00 - intro on theme #3
0:11 - theme #1
0:39 - theme #2
1:00 - theme #3
1:12 - theme #1
1:25 - theme #2
1:46 - theme #3
1:57 - solo on theme #1
2:11 - theme #2
2:32 - outro on theme #3

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 Post subject: Re: From an 8-bar loop to ... a song
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:05 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
Posts: 12969
Location: Seattle
This is a BIT more mouse oriented, but if you laid out your loops in session view, I don't see why you couldn't approach it that way too:

http://tarekith.com/assets/pdfs/ArrangingSongs.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: From an 8-bar loop to ... a song
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:25 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:35 am
Posts: 771
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pym5l8P9WWM
and the very long version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhLShhAskE8

basically i copy my 8 bar loops all over the place and start removing stuff
when i have an ok structure i then modify every 8 bar part to be unique (i really miss reason 1 sequencer that would autochange the clip color when it was different)

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 Post subject: Re: From an 8-bar loop to ... a song
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:39 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:46 am
Posts: 1420
Consult your favorite artists' song and learn their structure...

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 Post subject: Re: From an 8-bar loop to ... a song
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:41 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:50 pm
Posts: 11636
Location: MacAbleton Towers, sunny Manchester.
It depends on the style. If it's dance music you want to copy the structure of a song you like. You need an intro that's just drums, say 16 bars, then play your loop, but not the best bit. You need a small breakdown and then a bigger one later followed by the main drop. Keep more complex stuff for the main breakdown. Work in 8 bar chunks. Put a fill at the end of 8 or 16 bars

Here's an example of a work in progress done almost completely in Session View.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU_1qmKdgLo

Make a song like that and then record it. I've still not finished it. It needs more of a breakdown. Your main breakdown is where most of the drums stop playing, and wants to be 16 or 32 bars depending on the style.

Alternatively build a template in Arrange, with the kicks and hats already laid out, and the work in Arrange and Session at the same time.

To launch scenes while playing Arrange see this tutorial

Moving a song from Arrange to Session View

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 Post subject: Re: From an 8-bar loop to ... a song
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:45 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:34 am
Posts: 179
thanks everybody for your answers. i'll have a look at these youtube videos when i'll be able to watch videos (not possible here until next week ;))

My dream would be to find a small setup, example: my lpk25+lpd8 + launchpad (i'm going to buy one), and a number of vst/live devices that I will use *every time*, once for all assigned to the same knobs/buttons.

And then I would be able to create a structure/arrangement "live".

Do some of you have found a setup for your needs? :)
Cheers!


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 Post subject: Re: From an 8-bar loop to ... a song
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:08 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:50 pm
Posts: 11636
Location: MacAbleton Towers, sunny Manchester.
nc2010 wrote:
thanks everybody for your answers. i'll have a look at these youtube videos when i'll be able to watch videos (not possible here until next week ;))

My dream would be to find a small setup, example: my lpk25+lpd8 + launchpad (i'm going to buy one), and a number of vst/live devices that I will use *every time*, once for all assigned to the same knobs/buttons.

And then I would be able to create a structure/arrangement "live".

Do some of you have found a setup for your needs? :)
Cheers!


Yeah I use a pretty minimalist setup. I have a Launchpad, a Nocturn and a Keyrig 25 with 4 User Remote Scripts.

I use a template and just change stuff on that. I don't use half the VSTs I've got.

Most of the tutorials on my site are written, so if you can't watch videos have a look at those.

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 Post subject: Re: From an 8-bar loop to ... a song
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:19 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:37 pm
Posts: 319
Apparently PUSH will help with arrangement , controller wise. It's a reason I want it so bad.!

http://www.djtechtools.com/2012/10/25/a ... -for-live/


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 Post subject: Re: From an 8-bar loop to ... a song
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:26 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:34 am
Posts: 179
thanks Tarekith for your tutorial pdf, I've printed it and I've read it during holidays, very interesting! :)


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 Post subject: Re: From an 8-bar loop to ... a song
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:55 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
Posts: 12969
Location: Seattle
Glad it was helpful!

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 Post subject: Re: From an 8-bar loop to ... a song
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:49 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:34 am
Posts: 179
Yes! it's really a nice document... your "substractive" method is a good way of not being stuck with questions like "What should i begin with?"

Any other Youtube video / trick appreciated ! :)


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 Post subject: Re: From an 8-bar loop to ... a song
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:03 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
Posts: 12969
Location: Seattle
http://tarekith.com/helpandsounds/

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 Post subject: Re: From an 8-bar loop to ... a song
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:44 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:18 pm
Posts: 261
Location: Warsaw, PL
nc2010 wrote:
Do some of you have found a setup for your needs? :)


That's both - neverending quest, and a very first thing to be done.

* * *

In my case: Ozone keyboard, UC33e controller with heavily rebuilt midi presets, a complex template with lots of midi mappings, and a bit changed userconfiguration.txt for the control surface.

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 Post subject: Re: From an 8-bar loop to ... a song
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:04 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:34 am
Posts: 179
vitalispopoff wrote:
That's both - neverending quest, and a very first thing to be done.

* * *

In my case: Ozone keyboard, UC33e controller with heavily rebuilt midi presets, a complex template with lots of midi mappings, and a bit changed userconfiguration.txt for the control surface.


Great! What are the main things you control with your controllers?
Of course Filter Cutoff, Filter Res, I imagine, but what else?

I know how effects devices and MIDI assign work, of course, but I'm very curious about the multiple ways of using a limited number of knobs (UC33e for example). I know that every producer has its own habits... but I'm very interested :)

What do you usually assign to your UC33e's knobs ?


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