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 Post subject: Re: 20khz Shelf EQ
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:04 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
Posts: 14185
Location: Luxembourg
d3d0 wrote:
Tarekith so you're saying don't lowpass @ 30hz for example, when I have a subbass at 48hz?
)


Definitely not, no one would hear anything.

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InnerPortalStudio.com Over 15 years of mastering electronic music worldwide.


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 Post subject: Re: 20khz Shelf EQ
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:04 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
Posts: 14185
Location: Luxembourg
Tone Deft wrote:
strive to use fewer effects than looking for ways to use them. this is more important when you're still learning.


Well said!

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InnerPortalStudio.com Over 15 years of mastering electronic music worldwide.


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 Post subject: Re: 20khz Shelf EQ
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:10 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:48 am
Posts: 17
The only reason I'm producing at 88.2 is because of the reduced latency. However I've always thought that the frequencies outside the audible range enhance the richness of the sound overall.... same recording at 22 vs same recording at 44 will sound different imo and that of others who have experimented. You guys don't agree?


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 Post subject: Re: 20khz Shelf EQ
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:11 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:48 am
Posts: 17
Tarekith I meant to say don't "highpass" everything above 30hz?


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 Post subject: Re: 20khz Shelf EQ
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:25 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm
Posts: 23576
Location: SF, CA
Tarekith wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:
strive to use fewer effects than looking for ways to use them. this is more important when you're still learning.


Well said!

thanks! an ethos I picked up from you. ;) props for taking time on this one.


d3d0 - in the bigger picture this is what's happening...
you're learning about audio's quirks and errors. at first we freak out about those imperfections then over time we learn that those imperfections don't matter. along the way we start to learn about what does matter, like proper gain staging, overloading frequencies, phase issues etc. all your current questions come down to 'it just doesn't matter.' I was there once too, we all were.

for example:
you can read about how one sample rate captures audio differently than another but you're not gonna hear it, not any sample rate over 44.1kHz. the touchy part of sample rates are SRC, sample rate conversion. when using samples of various sample rates in a Live set they have to be converted to the same sample rate. it's not a big problem but when talking about sample rates, that's about all there is to it. it also affects latency but that's not an audio quality thing.

you should visit Tarekith's site and read his essays, then you'll get an idea of the landscape of problems that you should worry about with music production.

ultimately, there are no big problems in this area.


I gotta log out and get some guitar playing time in.

hth, don't overthink things.

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 Post subject: Re: 20khz Shelf EQ
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:36 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am
Posts: 2743
d3d0 wrote:
same recording at 22 vs same recording at 44 will sound different imo and that of others who have experimented. You guys don't agree?


in this example yes, because 22 kHz isn't a high enough sampling rate to capture the audible spectrum. roughly speaking the sampling rate needs to be at least twice the maximum frequency in the source signal. that's why CD quality sampling is 44.1 kHz.

look up the "Shannon-Nyquist Sampling Theorem"...


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 Post subject: Re: 20khz Shelf EQ
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:37 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:16 pm
Posts: 1102
Location: London
Tarekith wrote:
Wish I could find who started this silly "tip" and give them a stern talking to :)


Gearslutz threads on ITB mixing.

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 Post subject: Re: 20khz Shelf EQ
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:24 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:48 am
Posts: 17
OK guys, Tone Deft, thanks for drilling it into me, I get it lol.

I'm gonna check out Tarekith's website!

fishmonkey, thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: 20khz Shelf EQ
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:43 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
Posts: 14185
Location: Luxembourg
Sage wrote:
Tarekith wrote:
Wish I could find who started this silly "tip" and give them a stern talking to :)


Gearslutz threads on ITB mixing.


Right then, I'm off with my talking stick!

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 Post subject: Re: 20khz Shelf EQ
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:35 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:49 pm
Posts: 520
Location: Austin, TX
d3d0 wrote:
Hi there,

My first post here :D can't wait for Live 9 like everyone else haha, been watching the forums for a while now though, you guys are the best!

Maybe you can help me out, I've been analyzing a lot of mastered tracks and I always notice that there's a significant drop between 20khz and 24khz on 95% of them. How can I achieve such EQing? I tried and tried and to no avail I can't get anything close to as sharp and as accurate of a drop. (I'm working @ 88.2khz, that's how I'm able to see this drop)

Cheers!



LPF @ 20-24k is common because Analog transistors on most consumer level speaker equipment produces harmonic distortion at the super audio range (20+khz). Most passive speaker systems do not have a built in LPF at 20k, and play audio material ppast 20k causes the components to produce strange distorted artifacts,, this is because most speakers are designed to handle 100-15k frequency ranges (give or take a few).

Most studio monitors even produce hyper sonic distortion artifacts if they do not have a built in LPF installed in it.
lesrn more about it here
http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html - this guy actually test the output of highend systems at HD audio and it's his conclusion that HD audio is worthless outside of multitracking

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 Post subject: Re: 20khz Shelf EQ
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:04 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:16 pm
Posts: 1102
Location: London
In regards to high fidelity audio... If I was to put a 1dB boost at 12K and at 100hz on a 16, 44.1 CD quality file and then not do the same with anything with higher rates, the one that will sound better to the vast majority of listeners will be the 16 bit one.

Tape & vinyl, which is theory provide infinite values and should playback perfectly, are both riddled with distortion, no matter how good the setup is. Digital by default has distortion, but is often described as "clean" and "cold" because it is too precise? Which shouldn't be the case if our ears were truly picking up on all the distortion going on and analogue was as perfect as it is in theory.

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 Post subject: Re: 20khz Shelf EQ
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:12 am 

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:38 am
Posts: 1336
Whoa, Try not to throw so much technical jargon at the poor guy, might scare him off completely :)

There is Soooooo much to sound than just what you "hear" (or see or even feel) and it's one of the fascinating things about it. Reading a thread like this 15 years ago made me wonder if I would ever understand. 15 Years later I know a hell of a lot more but am still trying to understand it all and will always.

If you are really interested you will get it eventually. Just keep asking the questions and taking the good parts of the answers. Most are happy to share their wisdom when asked the right way.

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 Post subject: Re: 20khz Shelf EQ
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:40 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:48 am
Posts: 17
Thanks a lot for your replies guys, but it puzzles me the fact that CDs are 44.1khz that means that the range an audio file on a CD can go up to 22.05khz. If there's a point to cutting off at 20khz, why wasn't the audio standard 40khz instead?

Been in the business for a while, jargon doesn't scare me :) jestermgee


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 Post subject: Re: 20khz Shelf EQ
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:10 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:24 pm
Posts: 1176
Best. Troll. Ever. Like. Ever.

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