Live Bass processing

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boderekstits
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Live Bass processing

Post by boderekstits » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:59 pm

anyone here record live bass and guitar on their tracks?

I play Fender Jazz Bass, that goes into a Mackie 1402 VLZ mixer, then into a M-Audio Firewire 410 interface.

I've tried many different Eq'ing, filtering, compression, but I just can't get a good sound out of it. Sounds flat and dull.

Anyone have any tips?

rap masta rj
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Re: Live Bass processing

Post by rap masta rj » Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:19 pm

I have a nice squire jazz bass that i record with as well.

I use Pod Farm or Guitar Rig as amp sims and those usually do most of the work, but for the most part to get a good sound i boost around 40-60hz, then cut around 500 and boost again around 5k, then add moderate compression with slow attack and fast release. I also high-pass it, along with everything, at around 40hz. I tend to have all my pickups turned up all the way, some people prefer it differently though.

For 50$ you cant go wrong with Pod Farm, i'm not using the upgraded version and i can still get sweet sounds for both bass and guitar.

Here is an example of me using it, i am pretty content with the sound i have gotten.

https://soundcloud.com/rapmastarj/sweet-n-spicy

boderekstits
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Re: Live Bass processing

Post by boderekstits » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:05 pm

Something like this? Image

Def an improvement. Thanks for the tip.

rap masta rj
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Re: Live Bass processing

Post by rap masta rj » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:24 pm

boderekstits wrote:Something like this? Image

Def an improvement. Thanks for the tip.
yeah, mine usually looks like that. just make sure the sound doesnt get too muddy when boosting the low end, theres a thin line between phat and unpleasant. :lol:

nathannn
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Re: Live Bass processing

Post by nathannn » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:25 pm

boderekstits wrote:Something like this? Image

Def an improvement. Thanks for the tip.
:? 8O :!:

the previous poster is suggestion you get an amp sim, he's not suggesting to fiddle with eq settings.
eq'ing a dry electric bass signal is probably not going to do much. your bass still wont fit in a mix, it will just be all over the place when it comes to proper levels.
an amp sim will have 1.amp (with pre eq) and cab simulation (with mic settings), 2. compression, which is highly needed with electric bass 3. eq, the last in the chain.
The Push / Novation Launch Pad / Novation Launch Pad Pro / Novation Launch Key
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boderekstits
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Re: Live Bass processing

Post by boderekstits » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:38 pm

nathannn wrote:
boderekstits wrote:Something like this? Image

Def an improvement. Thanks for the tip.
:? 8O :!:

the previous poster is suggestion you get an amp sim, he's not suggesting to fiddle with eq settings.
eq'ing a dry electric bass signal is probably not going to do much. your bass still wont fit in a mix, it will just be all over the place when it comes to proper levels.
an amp sim will have 1.amp (with pre eq) and cab simulation (with mic settings), 2. compression, which is highly needed with electric bass 3. eq, the last in the chain.
thanks for the clarification. I recently got Guitar Rig and have used it before, I just fiddled through the bass presets and then messed around, without really knowing what I was doing. Hence the post here :)

So pre-eq with Guitar Rig,then a compresser, then EQ?

nathannn
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Re: Live Bass processing

Post by nathannn » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:48 pm

When using an amp sim I just use the eq on the amp, then slap a compressor on the chain and then eq .. so yep.

Real bass (not synths) can be almost as tricky as vocals, But with this method you pretty much will get the sound you want.
The Push / Novation Launch Pad / Novation Launch Pad Pro / Novation Launch Key
/ Launch Control XL / Machine MkII / Machine Studio / BeatStep / Livid OhmRGB / Livid Code V2 / Apc 40 MKII

no computers or synths

20 Copies of Ableton Live Lite.

boderekstits
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Re: Live Bass processing

Post by boderekstits » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:00 pm

nathannn wrote:When using an amp sim I just use the eq on the amp, then slap a compressor on the chain and then eq .. so yep.

Real bass (not synths) can be almost as tricky as vocals, But with this method you pretty much will get the sound you want.
Thanks for the tips. I'm excited that I might actually like my bass sound. Nice tunes on your soundcloud btw.

southsounder
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Re: Live Bass processing

Post by southsounder » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:37 am

EQ & comp can help, but as a general rule of thumb running a passive bass or guitar directly into line level mixer inputs = meh tone. Try using a direct box or mic pre with a hi-z input. I know the Onyx mixers also have 'em on channels 1&2 but I don't think the VLZ boards do.

FWIW I record bass direct all the time, and with a good direct box and even halfway decent mic pre you don't need any EQ at all.

Muzik 4 Machines
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Re: Live Bass processing

Post by Muzik 4 Machines » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:50 am

use a direct box, never plug into a line in, it fucks the sound

nathannn
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Re: Live Bass processing

Post by nathannn » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:28 pm

southsounder wrote:EQ & comp can help, but as a general rule of thumb running a passive bass or guitar directly into line level mixer inputs = meh tone. Try using a direct box or mic pre with a hi-z input. I know the Onyx mixers also have 'em on channels 1&2 but I don't think the VLZ boards do.

FWIW I record bass direct all the time, and with a good direct box and even halfway decent mic pre you don't need any EQ at all.
most audio interfaces already have a dedicated hi-z input
the only advantage i see to a di box is built in cab simulation
is there something else im missing?
The Push / Novation Launch Pad / Novation Launch Pad Pro / Novation Launch Key
/ Launch Control XL / Machine MkII / Machine Studio / BeatStep / Livid OhmRGB / Livid Code V2 / Apc 40 MKII

no computers or synths

20 Copies of Ableton Live Lite.

southsounder
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Re: Live Bass processing

Post by southsounder » Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:16 pm

nathannn wrote:most audio interfaces already have a dedicated hi-z input
the only advantage i see to a di box is built in cab simulation
is there something else im missing?
DI's in general don't have anything to do with cab simulation, all they do is impedance match the load of the instrument to the mic inputs found on most mixers and dedicated mic pres. Regular line inputs load passive pickups in a not-so-good way, and the results are exactly what the OP was complaining about - flat and dull sound.

It's true that the cheapest solution for the OP would be to bypass his mixer and run the bass directly into the hi-z inputs on his 410, but if he wants to run through his mixer first for monitoring or whatever that won't work.

Plus those composite mic/instrument inputs are never the best sounding anyway. My presonus firebox has the same sort of deal, and using a good DI before hitting the input sounds exponentially better than running straight in.

boderekstits
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Re: Live Bass processing

Post by boderekstits » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:09 pm

thanks y'all.....did a little research and found the SansAmp Bass Driver DI has been recommended by many.

I went on my local craigslist and did a search, and lo and behold someone listed one for sale on the same day for $100.

Having that along with Guitar Rig will be sufficient for me I think. It already sounds waaay better since starting this thread. Thanks again.

H20nly
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Re: Live Bass processing

Post by H20nly » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:28 pm

*bookmark*

Scotty Danger
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Re: Live Bass processing

Post by Scotty Danger » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:35 pm

If you get that Sansamp, run it direct to your interface and then load a cab sim on the track. That should be all you need, except maybe some cleanup EQ and/or a compressor in the mixing stage. Don't load a full amp sim, just the cabinet, the sansamp acts at the amp head.

I record my bass straight into my Apogee Duet 2, then load up Ableton's cab simulator and the Waves bass compressor (I forget the name, RenMaxx bundle though). I'm getting a neve-style preamp tonight though, hoping that really adds some flavor to the bass (Fender Mustang or Precision).
Apogee Duet 2, Jam / Macbook Pro - Lion / Waves RenMaxx / Suite 9
I make organic indie rock/pop with guitars and mics and stuff.

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