Moog Sub Phatty - lower cost Moog with big features

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
JuanSOLO
Posts: 3236
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:21 am
Location: Shreveport LA, sometimes Dallas/Ft Worth TX

Re: Moog Sub Phatty - low cost, big features

Post by JuanSOLO » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:51 pm

continuous wrote:
JuanSOLO wrote:the new MonoSequencer M4L patch, it's bliss.
What is this please?
It comes with the prepackaged M4L devices in Live 9 suite.
It's fucking awesome, especially with an outboard monosynth.
I modded it already so you can control it from your APC40.
Added 3 CC outs, and I will probably ditch the "repeat" sequence and replace it with another CC out so you can send 4 different CC sequences out. The repeat seems kinda useless to me, way to fast up to 16 repeats per step.
On the APC40 control part I have made it where if you press a step the Device Control Knobs control,
Pitch
Octave
Duration
Velocity
CC 1
CC 2
CC 3
CC 4
per step, like p-locks on elektron gear.

The MonoSynth device is great, my APC40 add on is still a WIP, but almost ready to go.
I will probably have it dialed in by the end of the weekend.

beats me
Posts: 23319
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm

Re: Moog Sub Phatty - low cost, big features

Post by beats me » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:00 pm

I’ll stop with the Apple comparison because that’s never going to go anywhere productive.

I understand the need for entry level Moog hardware, but does there really need to be 3 (or is it 4?)?

As somebody who doesn’t own any Moog hardware but would be interested I just see what’s lacking on these different entry level releases and I think we’re all agreeing it’s looked at as a long term investment. So why would I drop that kind of money on something that I think is lacking right out the gate? And I’m not tossing out some obscure niche features I would expect.

But given what I’ve said in this thread (aside from the Apple stuff) I’m probably not their target demographic, just thinking I should be.

JuanSOLO
Posts: 3236
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:21 am
Location: Shreveport LA, sometimes Dallas/Ft Worth TX

Re: Moog Sub Phatty - low cost, big features

Post by JuanSOLO » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:20 pm

beats me wrote:So why would I drop that kind of money on something that I think is lacking right out the gate?
You probably shouldn't, because you think it's lacking.
It's the people who see the "lacking" as a good thing that consider dropping that kind of money.
And I can think of many a friends who see it that way, and would rather die than give Apple a dime.

Over the past few years my perspective changed on whats lacking in analogue gear.
I experienced the full circle of,
used to play analogue gear,
got addicted to software (convenience),
got frustrated with the limitations of computing (sonically, and the black hole of too many options only to be tweaking the same software as every kid on the block reading my email on stage behind an apple logo),
realized the beauty of analogue gear,
bought some.

now I am in my happy place again.

beats me
Posts: 23319
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm

Re: Moog Sub Phatty - low cost, big features

Post by beats me » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:48 pm

True. I need more than “that sound” and knobs for easy dialing to drop that kind of loot. I respect that for other people though.

I just think Moog is extremely calculating on what they are omitting from the entry level hardware, not because of cost or technical difficulty, but because then there would be no incentive for a lot of people to upgrade to a flagship. I really don’t buy the nostalgia of “I love not being able to save shit!”. It sounds like a fanboy justification.


Wish I could join you in that happy place, but it's not in my cost to benefit index.

JuanSOLO
Posts: 3236
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:21 am
Location: Shreveport LA, sometimes Dallas/Ft Worth TX

Re: Moog Sub Phatty - low cost, big features

Post by JuanSOLO » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:20 pm

beats me wrote:I really don’t buy the nostalgia of “I love not being able to save shit!”. It sounds like a fanboy justification.
I think thats a little over sensational.
My band mate plays a,
Yamaha VSS30
Nintendo DS with the Korg MS app
Korg Poly 61
Roland SP-202
and a ton of FX like Boss Bass synth Pedals, delays, old Kaoss Pad, and a Bass Pog.

granted he has preset capabilities in some of that, and uses them, but he rarely makes any new ones.
plus most of the sound sculpting is with the Bass Synth pedals.
He makes cooler sounds than anyone I know, and dosent give much of a fuck if he can recall precise settings.
I watch him have way more fun dialing in fx pedals than recalling presets.
When he says he love's the way a Minataur is built and "kind likes the idea you cant save presets"
I believe him 100%, and it seems far from fanboyish.

I know a few other guys on a similar tip.
Lars from LZX being one of them, that guy dials in songs on a modular he built live.
He may have a few sequence presets, but not much.
Again some of the most best music I have witnessed,
and the Sub bass coming out of his home made 808, pretty much kills anything I've ever felt from a laptop.

djadonis206
Posts: 6488
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:23 pm
Location: Seattle, WA.

Re: Moog Sub Phatty - low cost, big features

Post by djadonis206 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:18 am

beats me wrote: Wish I could join you in that happy place, but it's not in my cost to benefit index.
That's funny, I studied Benefit-Cost Analysis in grad school. I love that stuff < nerd alert!

Anyways, there’s a couple different camps one can fall into:

Camp A: I just want to make music by any means necessary. These are people who could care less about analog or digital, free or for pay – they just want to see a final product and don’t care how they got there.

Camp B: I want to make music but products matter. These are the people who buy, sell, and trade gear until they settle on what works for them – they too just want to see a finished product but have the means and time to care how it’s done.

Camp C: I want to make music but can’t so I’ll just keep buying gear until something happens. These are your hobbyists who have the time and money to spend on gear knowing full well nothings getting put out, released, or uploaded.

Camp D: I’m smart and rich and have nothing better to spend my money on. These are the people who flop around from being a DJ to producer to a club promoter to a graphic designer to a computer programmer and so on…they have the capacity to learn but not the talent to show it.

Camp E: I’m genuinely interested in stuff and have the means to explore. This is me :)
Ableton | Elektron

Music

Tone Deft
Posts: 23565
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm
Location: SF, CA

Re: Moog Sub Phatty - low cost, big features

Post by Tone Deft » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:27 am

ask yourself why people make soft versions of hardware and nobody makes hard versions of software.

I used to use a Line 6 pod for guitar, then I got an actual tube amp. the Pod CAN sound good, the tube amp never sounds bad.

beware people that argue about gear they've never actually used.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

beats me
Posts: 23319
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm

Re: Moog Sub Phatty - low cost, big features

Post by beats me » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:48 am

Timely. I was listening to a Dave Grohl interview on on his Sound City movie which is about the custom ordered hand built Neve mixing board he rescued that Fleetwood Mac recorded Rumours on and many other successful artists and albums followed on that board. He considers it "magical" and fully believes that there is the possibility that we never would have heard of Nirvana or him if Nevermind wasn't recorded on that board.

I admit I was sucked in but we're only vaguely talking about the same thing here and I still stand by my assertion that if you're going to drop $1,000 on something in 2013 you better be able to save whatever it is you created on it. We're not talking bleeding edge technological wizardry here.

The Carpet Cleaner
Posts: 1128
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 2:21 pm
Location: Paris

Re: Moog Sub Phatty - low cost, big features

Post by The Carpet Cleaner » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:35 am

I used to believe that vsts and analogue were the same.

Then a friend, who is not really skilled, bought a moog voyager.
He sent me a "demo". Boy, the synth was amazing.

Use hardware, and you'll have much less trouble sounding good.

beats me
Posts: 23319
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm

Re: Moog Sub Phatty - low cost, big features

Post by beats me » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:24 am

Why not get a Minibrute instead of s Sub Phatty for less than half the price?

http://www.arturia.com/evolution/en/pro ... intro.html

Serious question. They seem like the same thing to me.

JuanSOLO
Posts: 3236
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:21 am
Location: Shreveport LA, sometimes Dallas/Ft Worth TX

Re: Moog Sub Phatty - low cost, big features

Post by JuanSOLO » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:49 am

beats me wrote:Serious question. They seem like the same thing to me.
Minibrute looks cool, same thing? hardly.
Moog vs Moog may be comparable, Korg vs Korg may be, DSI vs DSI etc.
But even synths by the same company vary.
Not all Roland TR 808's even sound exactly the same.

It's like saying FM8 and Operator seem like the same thing.
To me they dont, maybe they do to you, I have no idea.

oblique strategies
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:57 pm
Location: Another Green World

Re: Moog Sub Phatty - low cost, big features

Post by oblique strategies » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:33 am

Moogs with keyboards
Sub Phatty $1,000
Little Phatty $1,400 - $1,600
Voyager $2,300 - $5,000

Looks like a fairly decent range of products.


Back in the late 70's & early 80's Moog had a surprising number of less expensive models. Sorting through all these can be really confusing!

Moog Sonic 6 - 1974 - 1979
Micromoog - 1975 - 1979
Multimoog - 1978 - 1981
Moog Prodigy - 1979 - 1984
Concertmate MG-1 - 1981
Moog Rogue - 1981
Moog Source - 1981

continuous
Posts: 1012
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:11 pm
Location: PDX

Re: Moog Sub Phatty - low cost, big features

Post by continuous » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:45 am

BUMPP

Yo JuanSOLO what is the MonoSequencer M4L patch?

cheers

pistacchioso
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:57 am

Re: Moog Sub Phatty - low cost, big features

Post by pistacchioso » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:58 am

I'm gonna get beaten for this, but.. I'd love to have a Moog like and more than anyone else, but for a tenth of the price you can buy Gforce Minimoonsta (http://www.gforcesoftware.com/products/ ... sta/videos). Maybe I'm tone deaf or simply my ear is not refined enough, but if i close my eyes I cannot really say if a song has been done with a real Moog or a good VST and if I can appreciate certain nuances or colors in the sound, it's not certainly worth 10x the price.

I'm not saying that this is overpriced, on the contrary it's a very reasonable price for a Moog, or that is would be a worthless addition to someone's setup, but simply that I don't buy the arguments of those saying "What?! VSTs agains this?! That's totally a completely different game!"

DJTIVA
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:36 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: Moog Sub Phatty - low cost, big features

Post by DJTIVA » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:31 pm

I had the Gforce Minimonsta and have a Voyager now, they do sound different. The Minimonsta did not even come close to the real deal.

Post Reply