Wrong behavior in L8.3.4/8.4beta with MIDI in Massive VST

[UnderwaterSunlight]

Hi all Live 8.3.4 or 8.4b9 users and the Ableton developers or support personnel in particular. Please reproduce, using the following steps (You need a MIDI controller and NI Massive or Battery 3 or Arturia MiniMoog VSTi for this):

1. Create a New Set.

2. Drag any of the 3 aforementioned VSTi's to MIDI track. Make sure MIDI on that track is set to "All Ins/All channels".

3. Set the MIDI transmit channel of your MIDI controller to channel 5.

4. Set the MIDI receive channel of the VSTi to Omni (All Channels).

5. Play some notes. You will hear your VSTi now.

6. Now set the MIDI receive channel of the VSTi to channel 5 (must be the same channel as the one in step 3).

7. Play some notes. You will NOT hear your VSTi now WHICH IS PLAIN WRONG.

Expected behavior: Live passes notes sent from channel 5 on the MIDI controller to channel 5 of the VSTi just fine (if Live's MIDI is set to All Ins/All Channels).

Current behavior in Live 8.3.4 x32 and 8.4b9 x64: Live changes notes arriving from channel 5 on the MIDI controller to channel 1 internally. So the VSTi is not receiving MIDI if it is set to channel 5.

Serious, isn't it ?

Please correct a s a p.

Thank you.
Lando.

[UnderwaterSunlight]

Just need to add that this is an ISSUE UNIQUE TO ABLETON LIVE and is independent of any special VST.

I tested Battery and Massive in Standalone mode and they work perfect with regard to MIDI channels.

As no one has replied yet and tested this behavior, I am going to call Ableton HQ later today to see whether they are able to replicate this behavior.

Lando

[Szuumm]

I'm pretty sure this is expected behaviour since forever (whether this is a good way of doing things or not I'll leave for you to decide...)

They'll probably tell you to use External Instrument (?)

[Coupe70]

I'm pretty sure this is expected behaviour since forever

Why should this be expected behaviour ? What for ? Am I missing something ?

[Szuumm]

Actually, I think I am mistaken - I was thinking of MIDI output from VSTs being automatically rechanneled to channel 1. I don't think this is related to the OP's issue.

Apologies - it's a free bump anyway

[theophilus]

nope, that's how live works. midi on a track, whether coming from the track, or from an external controller, is rechannelized to 1.

it's easier if you think of the receive = recording and playback as separate steps. basically a midi track in ableton has no midi channel associated with it - just events. when you send it to the vst, it has to pick a channel, and that channel is currently 1.

it's really not a big deal, just different.

let's say you want to set up a keyboard split - drum rack on lower side of the keyboard, a bass in massive higher, and a pluck in dune on the top end.
you set splits on your master keyboard to send channels 10, 1 and 2 respectively for this.

in hardware, you'd set them all up on the same midi chain, with the drum sampler responding to channel 10, the bass to channel 1, and the pluck to channel 2.
perhaps some hosts work like that too.

in live, you drop the three devices on three separate tracks. set the VSTs all to respond to channel 1, but in the midi input for each track, set it to only the channel it is supposed to see - set the drums to only receive channel 10, bass to channel 1, and pluck to channel 2. now you have the exact same effect, just a slightly different way.

note that if you are setting up splits, and don't have a master that supports it, you can do it entirely in ableton with instrument racks as well - drop an instrument rack into a track, drop the 3 instruments in, and use the note range to limit each instrument to the note range you want it to respond to. (works for layering too).

if you really must have a midi channel, you can use external instrument, but it's usually more trouble than it's worth for this kind of case. way more useful for external hardware and/or combining tracks to a multitimbral instrument together to save CPU.

[Coupe70]

Interesting. I didn't know that, but it seems I completely
adapted to it, because I never thought about it and never
ran into trouble with it...

[UnderwaterSunlight]

This may be intended behavior then.

Reminds me of Cubase 5's infamous instrument tracks which can only work with MIDI channel 1. This was a pain and one of the reasons that drove me away from this app.
But I see each app (also Ableton Live) has its weaknesses.

Well, I'll have to work with its limitations then...Live to me is still a little bit better than Cubase for performance-oriented experimental electronic music.