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 Post subject: Maschine in Ableton?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:23 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:15 pm
Posts: 53
Does it make sense to buy Maschine to use in Ableton, or just use the same process with the drum racks..
Also, I own Reason 6, rewired into Live8, which seems to be similiar to Maschine (Kong)..
Is it redundant and a waste of money to but MAschine when I have all these other tools??
Also, How can I just buy the software libraries that come with these products..?? Mashince comes with a 6 Gb libray, which is all I want, the Library!!!
How can i just get that without buying the whole system,????


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 Post subject: Re: Maschine in Ableton?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:56 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:41 am
Posts: 731
IMHo, no it doesn't make sense given Drum racks, and also given Push is coming and is better integrated in to Live workflow.


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 Post subject: Re: Maschine in Ableton?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:30 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:29 pm
Posts: 118
I agree that full Maschine would be wasted a tad but you can pick up a Mickro pretty cheap, second hand for less than half the likely price of Push. That's when things get complicated and it all comes down to personal taste.

I still love to get away from everything and sit with Maschine only when I'm in a rut. Push would likely achieve the same outcome in fairness but the build quality is fantastic and the integration with Live (pre 9 at least) actually works really well.


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 Post subject: Re: Maschine in Ableton?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:46 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:27 pm
Posts: 636
444pio wrote:
Does it make sense to buy Maschine to use in Ableton, or just use the same process with the drum racks..

Yes. You just can't replicate all that Maschine does with Drum Racks. Using Live and a generic MIDI controller (or any Live-specific controller) doesn't come anywhere close to the integrated dedicated hardware aspect of Maschine as it will lack the total integration found in Maschine which allows you to be mouse-free and even lets you turn off the computer screen if you want to. Part of the beauty and workflow feel of Maschine is the disconnected feel it allows for. It gives you that focused feel by allowing to work so well from a centralized point with minimal deviation. In contrast, using Drum Racks with whatever MIDI controller will still force you to click around with the mouse/trackpad quite a bit.

444pio wrote:
Also, I own Reason 6, rewired into Live8, which seems to be similiar to Maschine (Kong)..

You can also rewire Reason to Maschine using the XT rewire VST plugin. Maschine also makes an excellent Reason controller: http://www.retouchcontrol.com/site_page.aspx?pageid=45

444pio wrote:
Is it redundant and a waste of money to but MAschine when I have all these other tools??

Nope. The point of Maschine is the hands-on mouseless workflow because you can do pretty much everything from just the Maschine hardware, without any mapping or configuring beforehand. For example, Live + Push will still be no match for Maschine when it comes to a mouseless hands-on workflow. Push doesn't even compare to Maschine in that department at all because you can't even slice to Drum Racks from the Push controller, you can't see waveforms or slices on the Push's LCD, you can't load samples/clips in browser from the hardware, you can't duplicate pads from the Push controller, you can't edit start points for unwarped clips from Push...etc. Not to mention that Push also doesn't even automap to plugins without saving them in racks first and can't do step automation (Elektron-style step parameter locks), and would still force you to click around with a mouse for a lot of little things like opening/closing plugin windows.

444pio wrote:
Also, How can I just buy the software libraries that come with these products..?? Mashince comes with a 6 Gb libray, which is all I want, the Library!!!
How can i just get that without buying the whole system,????

Buying Maschine for the software/library only doesn't make any sense at all to me. Not that you can anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Maschine in Ableton?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:12 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:51 am
Posts: 1708
Location: portland oregon
don't believe the hype dude, if you are already having reservations about maschine's cost for fear of redundancy...my $600 maschine is in my closet collecting dust, because it is not as easy to integrate with live as "they" claim it is.
if you are satisfied with kong and drum rack. just keep rocking those and buy a bunch of sample packs. save your self a ton of money. kong and drum rack are just as powerful as maschine, even more so, because you don't have to integrate those tools with live and reason...they already are.
that being said....maschine in stand alone is pretty fun and the controller has the best pads out there.

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 Post subject: Re: Maschine in Ableton?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:07 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:28 pm
Posts: 1322
eddiex wrote:
my $600 maschine is in my closet collecting dust, because it is not as easy to integrate with live as "they" claim it is.

Nonsense. It's super easy integrating Maschine and Live together. There's a reason why it's such a popular combo. Maschine is quite flexible actually so there are several ways they can be integrated to suit different workflows:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WcbjOm1uhY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnP1RM788Z4&t=02m28s


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 Post subject: Re: Maschine in Ableton?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:31 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:51 am
Posts: 1708
Location: portland oregon
that second video.....make sure you watch the first 3 minutes of it (which are conveniently fast forwarded through on the posted link) to check out all of the script dragging around you have to do to make maschine hardware even turn on in live.
here it is from the beginning :arrow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnP1RM788Z4
when i first got maschine, last year, the script for ableton was horrible. they have since improved upon it. which for me, means i have to drag the old script out, then redo the whole process all over again. i won't talk about how glitchy it was when i first started using it. how it would turn off and on at random while using it with ableton. humnumb and delicioso always get mad at me every time i bring it up. (that glitch has apparently been fixed) but i mean...that means it existed, and for enough people, that they actually had to make an effort to fix it. i don't have any kind of vendetta against maschine...it was just a serious headache for me, so much so that i don't even use it anymore. i just want people to be completely aware of what they are getting into with it. its not as simple and flawless for everyone, as it is being made out to be. and not all places will take maschine back. i got stuck with mine.

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 Post subject: Re: Maschine in Ableton?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:18 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:15 pm
Posts: 53
well, thank you all for those insightful comments.
One of you could not understand why I would just want the library. Well, I could use all those samples and sounds in my current set-up triggered by drumracks or Kong or reddrum..
So, my question is, Can you use Machine library sounds in other applications??
Beleive it or not, in Reason, you cannot use those .wav sounds in other applications, theres just no access to the library outisde of running Reason..
If I but Maschine, load the library sounds, then return the Maschine, theyll charge a 5% restocking fee, which may be worth it, IF I can use those sounds without runnig Maschine!!
What do you think??


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 Post subject: Re: Maschine in Ableton?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:23 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:29 am
Posts: 4369
Location: The Ableton Live Forum
I've been a fan of Maschine over drum racks for the most part, but there are pros and cons. It depends which are more important to you.

There is quite a bit that Maschine does that Drum Racks do not, such as:
-Slicing is much better and can be done all from hardware. For slicing, Live has to break up each slice into different devices. What if you want to get rid of a slice after slicing it up? A bit awkward, you start losing pads etc.
-It lets you load many more sliced loops. You can have 128 if you want (each with 128 slices!). With Live you could have multiple sliced loops in a drum rack, but you're limited by 128 slices total. And it'll be much less organized since they all get triggered from he same midi clip.
-You can load tons of instruments and actually play them all different midi tracks within a maschine instance. There's no equivalent in Live.
-Full loading of samples and editing and programming from the hardware etc.
-Load Maschine projects in different hosts.
-Drum racks give only 8 macros for the entire kit! This isn't great, with machine at least you get 8 per group. But that's not great either.
There's lots more but those are the main ones.

As for cons, the big one is the integration. Each group in Maschine gets 8 macro controls and that's all that's all automatable. No mutes, pattern changes or any of that. So for capturing performances in Live's sequencer, it's not very good. Drum racks let you capture everything. This is a pretty big one. Once Push comes out, I'll probably use drum racks more.

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 Post subject: Re: Maschine in Ableton?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:31 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:51 am
Posts: 1708
Location: portland oregon
:lol: :lol: :lol: 444pio!!!!

g. center wouldn't take my maschine back at all...i got stuck with mine, so good luck with that plan! :lol: they probably lock those samples in so people don't try to do, what you are trying to do. :lol: and to be honest dude, aside from the size, there is nothing insanely impressive about the library. yeah, a lot of it sounds great, but you can get samples that are just as good for less money, somewhere else on line, without doing any kind of shenanigans. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Maschine in Ableton?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:19 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:27 pm
Posts: 636
eddiex wrote:
that second video.....make sure you watch the first 3 minutes of it (which are conveniently fast forwarded through on the posted link) to check out all of the script dragging around you have to do to make maschine hardware even turn on in live.
here it is from the beginning :arrow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnP1RM788Z4

"all of the script dragging around"? :lol:
It's just a simple step by step guide the video was kind enough to go through about loading the Live template on the Maschine controller and setting up Live to use Maschine as a control surface, just as you would do with any other MIDI controller. There's no hacks, tedious workarounds, or rocket science involved.

eddiex wrote:
when i first got maschine, last year, the script for ableton was horrible. they have since improved upon it. which for me, means i have to drag the old script out, then redo the whole process all over again. i won't talk about how glitchy it was when i first started using it. how it would turn off and on at random while using it with ableton. humnumb and delicioso always get mad at me every time i bring it up. (that glitch has apparently been fixed) but i mean...that means it existed, and for enough people, that they actually had to make an effort to fix it. i don't have any kind of vendetta against maschine...it was just a serious headache for me, so much so that i don't even use it anymore. i just want people to be completely aware of what they are getting into with it. its not as simple and flawless for everyone, as it is being made out to be. and not all places will take maschine back. i got stuck with mine.

Yes, we know you're upset because you couldn't return it to Guitar Center and that you like to whine in every thread that mentions Maschine. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Maschine in Ableton?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:49 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:02 am
Posts: 3494
Location: Menasha, Wisconsin
The thing is, it isn't even ESSENTIAL to use that script. Yeah, it gives you nifty features. But you can just as easily open a blank template and map random stuff, play random notes. And it is very flexible for that.

Edit: although I Do wish it had Global midi channel change..... :/ (so it'd be faster to make pages that would not conflict with the scripts)


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 Post subject: Re: Maschine in Ableton?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:46 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:51 am
Posts: 1708
Location: portland oregon
humnumb wrote:
eddiex wrote:
that second video.....make sure you watch the first 3 minutes of it (which are conveniently fast forwarded through on the posted link) to check out all of the script dragging around you have to do to make maschine hardware even turn on in live.
here it is from the beginning :arrow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnP1RM788Z4

"all of the script dragging around"? :lol:
It's just a simple step by step guide the video was kind enough to go through about loading the Live template on the Maschine controller and setting up Live to use Maschine as a control surface, just as you would do with any other MIDI controller. There's no hacks, tedious workarounds, or rocket science involved.

eddiex wrote:
when i first got maschine, last year, the script for ableton was horrible. they have since improved upon it. which for me, means i have to drag the old script out, then redo the whole process all over again. i won't talk about how glitchy it was when i first started using it. how it would turn off and on at random while using it with ableton. humnumb and delicioso always get mad at me every time i bring it up. (that glitch has apparently been fixed) but i mean...that means it existed, and for enough people, that they actually had to make an effort to fix it. i don't have any kind of vendetta against maschine...it was just a serious headache for me, so much so that i don't even use it anymore. i just want people to be completely aware of what they are getting into with it. its not as simple and flawless for everyone, as it is being made out to be. and not all places will take maschine back. i got stuck with mine.

Yes, we know you're upset because you couldn't return it to Guitar Center and that you like to whine in every thread that mentions Maschine. :roll:


:lol: DUDE!! you are so crazy man!! i love it. you get so mad about this maschine stuff. its almost as if you and DELICIOSO get paid by NATIVE INSTRUMENTS or something. :wink: i find it extra funny that all of the script dragging stuff was fast forwarded through on the video link DELICIOSO posted by the way...just sayin'
that is the stuff that people want to know about before throwing down 600$. i thought it was a pain in the ass dragging 1 script in to make maschine work with ableton, much less having to drag that script out (because it sucked so bad) and dragging the new updated one in. and NO, you don't have to do that with every midi controller.
PLUS!!! not to mention, again and again, IT WAS GLITCHY AS HELL!!!...(i know, i know, it was fixed) but that didn't help me out all that time before it was updated.

i just like to let people, who don't know, who are thinking about spending their hard earned money, my experiences with maschine, which were less than pleasant...because in the end, i got F-ed.
as opposed to you and DELICIOSO who are selling it, like it's the greatest controller/software on the face of the planet.
600 bucks is a lot of money to pay ,to find out the stuff i found out about maschine, the hard way.

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 Post subject: Re: Maschine in Ableton?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:31 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:28 pm
Posts: 1322
EDDIEX. DUDE. Take a deep breath. It's gonna be alright. We get it. Your experience with Maschine was diappointing for you and you wanted to let the world know about it. It's time to move on.


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 Post subject: Re: Maschine in Ableton?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:51 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:51 am
Posts: 1708
Location: portland oregon
:lol: i'm good, i just try to head all of you "kool aid drinkers" and NATIVE INSTRUMENTS sales people off at the pass, before you corrupt another fragile mind with your shiny devil magic and colorful light up pads :lol:

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Last edited by eddiex on Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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