Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
kevwestbeats
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by kevwestbeats » Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:33 am

humnumb wrote:
kevwestbeats wrote:There is no way to directly control clip length from the Maschine controller but I am not sure that there is any way without opening the editor window for that sequence with the mouse either.
I see that you're still comparing Maschine and Push as Live controllers but that doesn't make too much sense and is just causing more confusion in this discussion. Since Maschine as a whole (software + hardware) integrates well with Live (whether via drag&drop/export or as a plugin), it makes more sense to compare how much control each controller has over its own software. In the case of Maschine, it's pretty much total control, while in the case of Live & Push, it only covers a fraction of what the Maschine hardware can do for its own software.

So, for example, saying "There is no way to directly control clip length from the Maschine controller" without giving context that you're actually talking about the Live software and not the Maschine software, only adds to the confusion because Maschine has always been able to directly control clip length for its software from its controller, without ever touching the mouse.
well I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree then. I have not seen anything that Push can do that the Maschine controller cannot do in Live regardless of its own software. The Maschine software was not the point at all since I keep repeating that I am talking about the controller controlling Live as I have been for some time.
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by humnumb » Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:43 am

kevwestbeats wrote:I have not seen anything that Push can do that the Maschine controller cannot do in Live regardless of its own software.
Fair point.

I'm just saying it's getting a bit confusing here because some people are only talking about using these controllers to control Live and some people are comparing them as controllers for their respective software they were primarily made for. Specifying what you actually mean would probably help to avoid the unnecessary back and forth so that we're all on the same page.

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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by login » Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:00 am

humnumb wrote:
kevwestbeats wrote:I have not seen anything that Push can do that the Maschine controller cannot do in Live regardless of its own software.
Fair point.

I'm just saying it's getting a bit confusing here because some people are only talking about using these controllers to control Live and some people are comparing them as controllers for their respective software they were primarily made for. Specifying what you actually mean would probably help to avoid the unnecessary back and forth so that we're all on the same page.
the ismorphic keyboard and conform to scales functions can't be done in maschine.

delicioso
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by delicioso » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:05 am

login wrote:the ismorphic keyboard and conform to scales functions can't be done in maschine.
Actually, you can set scales on Maschine's pads to control it's own software in Maschine mode or to control Live or any other software in MIDI mode.

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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by aizo » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:12 am

one thing that might be a factor for some people (and sorry if it was mentioned before) is PUSH is huge! It's almost the same size as the APC40. I had no idea it was that big.
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by Freekster » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:03 am

delicioso wrote:
login wrote:the ismorphic keyboard and conform to scales functions can't be done in maschine.
Actually, you can set scales on Maschine's pads to control it's own software in Maschine mode or to control Live or any other software in MIDI mode.
I know it can be done with the Live controller template, how do you set scales to pads to control machine?

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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by Valiumdupeuple » Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:48 am

In the Live software or in the Maschine software? I am talking about not opening plug ins in Maschine and running Maschine like any other plug in in Live and using the Maschine controller to control live. I would love to do this but I do not see anything about controlling Live's browser using Maschine. Would like to see it happen though. I'm assuming someone will make this happen with a template for 9
I'm currently building a Maschine template which does a lot of cool things, including browsing the ... browser.
It's partly based on m4l (and some osx only externals) though and built toward the arrangement view, as it's what I'm mainly using currently.
The idea is to be able to do everything without the mouse, and it works. It's still more comfortable to use the trackpad for the two-fingers scrolling inside the arrange IMHO, but I really can also do this on maschine.
I have control over the selected track (mute, arm, solo, fold), the selected clip (warp/unwarp, loop/unloop, lenght, pitch, volume, reverse), the devices (with parameters names thanks to mackie control magic)...
Yeah, I'm teasing :roll: 8)
Last edited by Valiumdupeuple on Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by JMFOne » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:24 am

Lots of the youtube vids show the hip-hop scene has really taken to Maschine. I'm just interested what genres you are all into and if there is any correlation between genre and PUSH/Maschine.

Personally Im into house/techno/breaks/dnb stuff. The maschine looks great for sampling so the hip-hop vibe is obvious.

Also, noone is mentioning the sounds you get. What is the stock soundkit like in Maschine? Is it all hip-hop stuff? What are they planning on giving us with PUSH?
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by The Carpet Cleaner » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:27 am

I do electro and stock Sounds + komplete sound much better than ableton sounds (I ve suite).

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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by panten » Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:17 pm

kevwestbeats wrote: I have not seen anything that Push can do that the Maschine controller cannot do in Live regardless of its own software.
Step Sequence and play real time pads at the same time?

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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by kevwestbeats » Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:46 pm

JMFOne wrote:Lots of the youtube vids show the hip-hop scene has really taken to Maschine. I'm just interested what genres you are all into and if there is any correlation between genre and PUSH/Maschine.

Personally Im into house/techno/breaks/dnb stuff. The maschine looks great for sampling so the hip-hop vibe is obvious.

Also, noone is mentioning the sounds you get. What is the stock soundkit like in Maschine? Is it all hip-hop stuff? What are they planning on giving us with PUSH?
I make hip hop. They aren't just hip hop kits if there is such a thing. Usually kits named hip hop or something similar turn out to be corny as hell. But Maschine is great for hip hop less because we sample because most hip hop producers don't sample anymore but because its a percussive instrument reminiscent of an MPC. Hip hop is about drum programming first melody second so a tool like Maschine works awesomely.
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:10 pm

kevwestbeats wrote:
humnumb wrote:
kevwestbeats wrote:There is no way to directly control clip length from the Maschine controller but I am not sure that there is any way without opening the editor window for that sequence with the mouse either.
I see that you're still comparing Maschine and Push as Live controllers but that doesn't make too much sense and is just causing more confusion in this discussion. Since Maschine as a whole (software + hardware) integrates well with Live (whether via drag&drop/export or as a plugin), it makes more sense to compare how much control each controller has over its own software. In the case of Maschine, it's pretty much total control, while in the case of Live & Push, it only covers a fraction of what the Maschine hardware can do for its own software.

So, for example, saying "There is no way to directly control clip length from the Maschine controller" without giving context that you're actually talking about the Live software and not the Maschine software, only adds to the confusion because Maschine has always been able to directly control clip length for its software from its controller, without ever touching the mouse.
well I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree then. I have not seen anything that Push can do that the Maschine controller cannot do in Live regardless of its own software. The Maschine software was not the point at all since I keep repeating that I am talking about the controller controlling Live as I have been for some time.
Man you are hard to follow! Ok, so we're talking only about what Maschine can do as a Live controller, not what Maschine can do with it's own dedicated software. Got it.
"I have not seen anything that Push can do that the Maschine controller cannot do in Live". But haven't we discussed many of these? You've listed many yourself!
Here's a few (again)
-Creating tracks
-Browsing and opening Live devices and sounds, and Live presets, which can include plug-ins saved as racks
-Sequencing drums in drum racks (You keep saying that Maschine can input notes and I keep saying that I'm talking about step sequencing, in particular step sequencing over32 steps while you drum pads are still available). You can also change the pattern length with Push.
-Playing melodic instruments with an actual playable range. 64 pads vs. 16 just can't be compared. Push appears to be a legitimate instrument for melodic instruments. With all kinds of cool extras like the note lighting up in other positions when you play it.
-Change scales and keys of pads
-The way that Push deals with the mixer mapping is very different. You can do volume or pan or a send for one at a time on each track (up to 8 sends!), Or you can have control of volume.pan and 6 sends for a single track at once. Maschine does not have this functionality.
-I shouldn't need to go into how different session view control can be being able to control 8 tracks of 8 clips at once vs Maschines 4 tracks and 4 clips.

There are other things I'm not sure about like:
-Can maschine input notes by holding a pad, where velocity of repeated notes is determined by pad pressure? It can do it in it's own software but can it do it for drum racks? I doubt it but could be wrong.
-Can it undo recordings and automation made in Live clips like Push can? I doubt it but not sure.

Overall, it's the instrument focus of Push combined with the Session control of many pads that makes it interesting. The 16 pads of Maschine works great for MPC style drum sampler, but Push with it's 64 pads gives a pretty different feel I'm guessing.
Last edited by glitchrock-buddha on Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:12 pm

JMFOne wrote:Lots of the youtube vids show the hip-hop scene has really taken to Maschine. I'm just interested what genres you are all into and if there is any correlation between genre and PUSH/Maschine.

Personally Im into house/techno/breaks/dnb stuff. The maschine looks great for sampling so the hip-hop vibe is obvious.

Also, noone is mentioning the sounds you get. What is the stock soundkit like in Maschine? Is it all hip-hop stuff? What are they planning on giving us with PUSH?
You get Live Intro with Push, which has a small soundbank of drum and instrument sounds. If you own Live already, then you're getting nothing new. Ableton Live is the software, Push is the hard. Maschine ships with both the hardware and the software.
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by milfhuntr » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:52 pm

I used to have a Maschine. It seemed pointless as it added nothing that I wasn't doing already with my nanopad and nanokontrol. Made no sense to keep it. Besides, with my own controllers I can map it any way I like. I have different mappings if I want to control a TR-909 or if I want to control a TR-707 or TB. Whatever I do I can make my own controls. But Maschine locks you into a format and delivers a very weak lite kind of software on the software end. Their so called mappings were always buggy and weak with NO support on their end.

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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:02 pm

milfhuntr wrote:I used to have a Maschine. It seemed pointless as it added nothing that I wasn't doing already with my nanopad and nanokontrol. Made no sense to keep it. Besides, with my own controllers I can map it any way I like. I have different mappings if I want to control a TR-909 or if I want to control a TR-707 or TB. Whatever I do I can make my own controls. But Maschine locks you into a format and delivers a very weak lite kind of software on the software end. Their so called mappings were always buggy and weak with NO support on their end.
I suppose that's one way to look at it.

On the other hand it's by far the best hardware/software combination there as ever been for beat-making and sequencing in general. It's the first and only time hardware has been created for software that allow complete control from the hardware. So for some, it's not bad at all.
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