Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
SuburbanThug
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by SuburbanThug » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:02 pm

panten wrote:SuburbanThug: Yeah that's one of the vids that sold me on the pads, you can see the musician do a sweep across the keys at one point.
There are a ton of great videos around now showing a broad range of styles.
http://www.reddit.com/r/abletonpushvideos/new/

Don't mind the negative vibes in this thread so much man, they don't reflect that the Push is FUN to use.
As is Maschine I have no doubt :roll:
I don't mind the vibes here. I realized before I joined the forum that this thread was... unique. Elsewhere on this forum I find that people are extremely gracious and willing to help a brother out. A pretty amazing community. I certainly wouldn't mind the Maschine hawking if it wasn't so over-zealous and far reaching. When I joined I found that almost every thread where Push was mentioned there were recurring characters smugly advertising Maschine. At first I was like "trolling is trolling" but eventually the relentlessness and overwhelming dedication of these characters became like those commercials on youtube that are so well funded that they play before every single 4 minute video you watch until you want to gouge your eyes out or kidnap the CEOs children and hold them for ransom until they take the commercial down. :lol:

deva
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by deva » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:31 pm

blinkeye wrote:You can leave religion out of this, deva, although I can tell that it's a subject that's dear to your heart since every other post from you mentions "omniscient god" and "religious cult".

Anyway, no, you're the one who has a hard time seeing that a lot of people do think of Maschine in that way. It's people like you and skatr2 that always has to come back with a retort about how no one else feels that way and when it's pointed out that it's not the case, then you put words in people's mouth like how they "cannot imagine for a second that it doesn't suit everyone". :roll:

I mention religious zealotry because it is the analogy that best fits your (and humnumb) behavior. The incredible arrogance that thinks its way is the only possible way. All the posts from you I have seen are advertising Maschine. Doesn't matter if it fits the thread or not. You are the one saying that Maschine is perfect, does everything for everyone and so on. You do not say it so directly, but you say it... over and over and over. So as long as you keep doing it, I may keep describing it.

blinkeye
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by blinkeye » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:50 pm

Sorry to ruin your religious zealotry analogy fantasy, deva, but no, I have never thought or said that Maschine "is the only possible way" or that its "perfect, does everything for everyone and so on". I don't think that way about any gear. I'm only speaking for myself though. What I see is trolling coming from both camps. It would really help if you could tone down your accusatory assumptions based on your own paranoia and insecurity.

SuburbanThug
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by SuburbanThug » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:56 pm

blinkeye wrote:Sorry to ruin your religious zealotry analogy fantasy, deva, but no, I have never thought or said that Maschine "is the only possible way" or that its "perfect, does everything for everyone and so on". I don't think that way about any gear. I'm only speaking for myself though. What I see is trolling coming from both camps. It would really help if you could tone down your accusatory assumptions based on your own paranoia and insecurity.
Dude, a brief glance over your post history shows that you haven't made a post not related to or expounding the greatness of that device since 2009! That's why he's calling you a zealot. You have gone beyond enthused into frankly mentally deranged territory where you are only capable of praising this machine and unable to post anything else to this forum useful or otherwise.

blinkeye
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by blinkeye » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:19 am

SuburbanThug wrote:
blinkeye wrote:Sorry to ruin your religious zealotry analogy fantasy, deva, but no, I have never thought or said that Maschine "is the only possible way" or that its "perfect, does everything for everyone and so on". I don't think that way about any gear. I'm only speaking for myself though. What I see is trolling coming from both camps. It would really help if you could tone down your accusatory assumptions based on your own paranoia and insecurity.
Dude, a brief glance over your post history shows that you haven't made a post not related to or expounding the greatness of that device since 2009! That's why he's calling you a zealot. You have gone beyond enthused into frankly mentally deranged territory where you are only capable of praising this machine and unable to post anything else to this forum useful or otherwise.
lol Says the Push zealot whose 112 posts since joining "Wed Apr 03, 2013" are only on behalf of Push. :lol:

Anyway, yes, Maschine first came out in 2009 and I've found it to be pretty great since then.

beats me
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by beats me » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:34 am

I’d like to file a complaint/question about Maschine.

I recently bought some expansion packs, mostly for the samples and styles they represent, but also for the patterns that I sometimes find as a good starting point. Each pack supposedly comes with like 100 patterns each as advertised by NI’s spec (sales) page. Well, when you hit the patterns window in Maschine’s browser it’s completely empty, no patterns from the stock software or expansion packs I got.

My research has come up with nothing and it appears the patterns browser is only for patterns you create on your own and save as a pattern. Am I wrong here? If you have to save your own patterns or manually save individual patterns from demo songs NI sells after the fact then why advertise it coming with a certain amount of patterns?

3dot...
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by 3dot... » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:37 am

Image
Image

SuburbanThug
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by SuburbanThug » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:43 am

blinkeye wrote:
SuburbanThug wrote:
blinkeye wrote:Sorry to ruin your religious zealotry analogy fantasy, deva, but no, I have never thought or said that Maschine "is the only possible way" or that its "perfect, does everything for everyone and so on". I don't think that way about any gear. I'm only speaking for myself though. What I see is trolling coming from both camps. It would really help if you could tone down your accusatory assumptions based on your own paranoia and insecurity.
Dude, a brief glance over your post history shows that you haven't made a post not related to or expounding the greatness of that device since 2009! That's why he's calling you a zealot. You have gone beyond enthused into frankly mentally deranged territory where you are only capable of praising this machine and unable to post anything else to this forum useful or otherwise.
lol Says the Push zealot whose 112 posts since joining "Wed Apr 03, 2013" are only on behalf of Push. :lol:

Anyway, yes, Maschine first came out in 2009 and I've found it to be pretty great since then.
Damn, you are so full of shit. I've praised Maschine and Push in this thread. I've criticized Push and praised it. I joined this thread when I got a license for Push so it seems to follow that many of my posts would be related to it. But even today I have commented on topics unrelated to it.

You haven't made a post unrelated to Maschine since 2009.

:lol:

8O

So... you don't really contribute anything useful to this forum.

SuburbanThug
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by SuburbanThug » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:47 am

3dot... wrote:Image
This baby was definitely on the wish list but the APC was winning due to faders. Knobs are great but I figured I could get more creative with faders. It still looks attractive with that effects section though. Doesn't this have one of those knobs that latches to whatever the mouse is hovering over?

monohusche
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by monohusche » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:47 am

beats me wrote:I’d like to file a complaint/question about Maschine.

I recently bought some expansion packs, mostly for the samples and styles they represent, but also for the patterns that I sometimes find as a good starting point. Each pack supposedly comes with like 100 patterns each as advertised by NI’s spec (sales) page. Well, when you hit the patterns window in Maschine’s browser it’s completely empty, no patterns from the stock software or expansion packs I got.

My research has come up with nothing and it appears the patterns browser is only for patterns you create on your own and save as a pattern. Am I wrong here? If you have to save your own patterns or manually save individual patterns from demo songs NI sells after the fact then why advertise it coming with a certain amount of patterns?
seriously, dude ?!.......RTFM !

page 31 (maschine manual 1.5)
Pattern is a sequence that plays Sounds from the current Group. A Pattern is therefore usually linked to a Group since it is a part of the Group; however you can also save it independently from the Group. This is useful if you want to try out different drum kits with the same Pattern or different Sounds with a given melody. More information on Patterns can be found in chapter 6, “Working with Patterns (Software)” and chapter 7, “Working with Patterns (Software)”
Load a kit and press the pattern button, each pad now represents a pattern.

SuburbanThug
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by SuburbanThug » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:54 am

So you can pop into this thread and ask a question about Maschine and within 5 minutes someone is here to answer your question. That's pretty cool.

3dot...
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by 3dot... » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:54 am

beats me wrote:I’d like to file a complaint/question about Maschine.

I recently bought some expansion packs, mostly for the samples and styles they represent, but also for the patterns that I sometimes find as a good starting point. Each pack supposedly comes with like 100 patterns each as advertised by NI’s spec (sales) page. Well, when you hit the patterns window in Maschine’s browser it’s completely empty, no patterns from the stock software or expansion packs I got.

My research has come up with nothing and it appears the patterns browser is only for patterns you create on your own and save as a pattern. Am I wrong here? If you have to save your own patterns or manually save individual patterns from demo songs NI sells after the fact then why advertise it coming with a certain amount of patterns?
unfortunately .. yes you need to save them one by one for yourself...
however...for the factory ones can be downloaded here
http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... hp?t=84729
Image

monohusche
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by monohusche » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:45 am

This thread is somewhat addictive, even though I know it's a waste of time (as by now, the actual value of the comments is zero), I keep reading....and posting :-)

to firstly position me in this "war": I did buy Maschine two years ago, but never really got into it which is more testament to me not spending enough time rather than weaknesses of the product. The fact of having a "sequencer within a sequencer" did bug me though, so with Push offering tighter integration with Live (i.e track creation, device creation, browser, Live devices) AND M4L, I jumped ship and bought Push (arriving today !!). Now, where I kind of blanked out was the fact that I had (stupidly) bought an academic version of Maschine before. Now realising that there is no way I can sell the controller (other than as a replacement controller or for scrap parts).

I know, stupid but also kind of clever in terms of inner family budget discussions :-) because guess what ? I will have both ;-). And I am happy about it because they do complement each other (even though not to a level that I would knowingly buy both). plan right now is to use Push as the Master controller at the Live level, managing tracks, devices, clips,automation and accessing Live content. All the patterns, clips and scenes will be inside Live rather than using the respective features of Maschine.

Maschine, on the other hand, will primarily act as a vst sound source (Komplete Elements, Expansion packs) and sound manipulation tool. So I will feed MIDI from Live into it, and I will route the audio per track out of it. Might also feed external inputs and other internal sound sources into Maschine for sampling.

So the direction is quite clear. In case there is overlaps (drum sequencing, playing chords), I will go down the Push route, for everything else, I use the tool that is superior/unique for the respective feature.

But that wasn't my point.

Regarding the (pretty useless) "instrument" debate, why don't you check out the wikipedia definition ? As both don't produce sound by itself (unless finger tapping on a disconnected device is your thing), they are both not considered instruments. If at all, the computer (or better the DAW) + the user interface (Maschine, Push, Keyboard) is the instrument. So let's abandon the instrument debate and focus on the controller debate.

What is the better controller/user interface ? Obviously, hard to judge as someone would have to come up with metrics first. And this is actually quite hard because functional richness, musical range etc. are not necessarily appropriate. At the end of the day, it is all about creating music, and if a device with less choices get you there quicker, then this device is better (for you).


So why don't you guys exchange all your sound cloud pages and decide based on your MUSIC who has the longest, and who is more having a hypothetical fanboy debate (probably merely scratching the surface) ?

Last comment: I don't think anyone here on the forum regardless which side of the fence has a vested interest in creating more sales for either company (call me naive :-)), but we seem to use the "Maschine vs Push" proxy debate to make ourselves, our choices/preferences and ultimately our approach to music seem superior. NI and Ableton can be proud of you (for all the free "grassroots" marketing)

So rather than discussing the means (=tools), discuss the final product (if you are really determined to appoint a winner).

I obviously think, there is no winner, most of the music I am enjoying has been produced using neither of those (I guess). Take Squarepusher, Autechre, Aphex Twin. I doubt, I will "overtake" any of them even by having BOTH.

pencilrocket
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by pencilrocket » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:58 am

SuburbanThug wrote:Seriously...
I really like this video of this guy playing "Flight of the Bumblebee" on Push. I wonder if you could play something of this level of complexity on a Maschine?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhPuxyBiHgo
This is the version w/o cheat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6A-JYbu1Os

monohusche
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

Post by monohusche » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:08 am

3dot... wrote:
beats me wrote:I’d like to file a complaint/question about Maschine.

I recently bought some expansion packs, mostly for the samples and styles they represent, but also for the patterns that I sometimes find as a good starting point. Each pack supposedly comes with like 100 patterns each as advertised by NI’s spec (sales) page. Well, when you hit the patterns window in Maschine’s browser it’s completely empty, no patterns from the stock software or expansion packs I got.

My research has come up with nothing and it appears the patterns browser is only for patterns you create on your own and save as a pattern. Am I wrong here? If you have to save your own patterns or manually save individual patterns from demo songs NI sells after the fact then why advertise it coming with a certain amount of patterns?
unfortunately .. yes you need to save them one by one for yourself...
however...for the factory ones can be downloaded here
http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... hp?t=84729

great find, now if someone can decode .mpat and provide a converter to .mid, that would be great


as I said above, no patterns in Maschine...damn ;-)

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