Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
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SuburbanThug
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
As far as drums are concerned, yes. Maschine is an instrument. Like a drum set. As far as melodic content goes I'd be hard pressed to find any useful instrument that only allows you to play 16 notes at a time. Just going off the top of my head here.
Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
You're not at all limited to just 16 notes at a time when playing on Maschine. To me, that the experience of using Maschine feels like playing a hardware instrument is not mutually exclusive from the ability to also play it from other controllers and instruments I may have also plugged in such as a keyboard. And I can use them together without ever touching the mouse or even looking at the computer screen.SuburbanThug wrote:As far as drums are concerned, yes. Maschine is an instrument. Like a drum set. As far as melodic content goes I'd be hard pressed to find any useful instrument that only allows you to play 16 notes at a time. Just going off the top of my head here.
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SuburbanThug
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
You absolutely are limited to playing only 16 notes at a time on Maschine. Sure, you can plug a keyboard into it and plug the Maschine into the computer and play away but then you are playing a keyboard, not Maschine.
Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
Spare us the semantic pedantry, will ya?SuburbanThug wrote:You absolutely are limited to playing only 16 notes at a time on Maschine. Sure, you can plug a keyboard into it and plug the Maschine into the computer and play away but then you are playing a keyboard, not Maschine.
Yes, you can plug a keyboard into Maschine and yes, you're still playing into Maschine whether you play its pads or the keyboard.
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SuburbanThug
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
Pedantry, huh? Do you understand how Maschine makes any sound at all? It is a controller. The computer makes the sound. So if you plug a keyboard into it the Maschine is doing nothing. The keyboard and the computer are the instrument. Are you intentionally trying to mislead people? Or do you really not understand how your computer makes those funky sounds? 
Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
SubrbanThug, it seems like you do understand the concept that Maschine consists of the software on the computer that is controlled by a hardware controller that's fully integrated with the software. You do realize that the Maschine controller itself has MIDI in/out ports, right? Those MIDI ports are there by design so you can plug MIDI keyboards into it.
So what part of "Maschine software being controlled by its own controller and the MIDI keyboard controller plugged into the Maschine controller, like Maschine was designed to do, is still controlling Maschine" are you having trouble understanding? A keyboard plugged in as an additional controller extension doesn't take anything away from the experience of using Maschine and its ability to have a completely hands-on hardware-based workflow which is what makes it more of an instrument.
So what part of "Maschine software being controlled by its own controller and the MIDI keyboard controller plugged into the Maschine controller, like Maschine was designed to do, is still controlling Maschine" are you having trouble understanding? A keyboard plugged in as an additional controller extension doesn't take anything away from the experience of using Maschine and its ability to have a completely hands-on hardware-based workflow which is what makes it more of an instrument.
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SuburbanThug
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
If you plug a keyboard into it, then what use is the Maschine??? In what way does having to plug yet another controller into your computer (or into your Maschine, SAME DIFFERENCE) compare to a self-contained unit? As far as being it's own instrument or bringing anything different to the world of instruments... No, sorry bud. The Maschine is an MPC emulator with the additional function of being able to trigger soft synths or control a DAW. If you are playing a Maschine you are playing a Maschine (and the software of course) and if you are playing a keyboard you are playing a keyboard. And the software. Of course.
Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
3dot... wrote:ffs
I was thinking that about 30 pages ago.
Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
SuburbanThug wrote:The Maschine is an MPC emulator with the additional function of being able to trigger soft synths or control a DAW.
No, sorry bud. Nice try but Maschine is NOT an "MPC emulator with the additional function of being able to trigger soft synths or control a DAW". Maschine is a groundbreaking software/dedicated hardware hybrid workstation host with unparalleled level of integration and has constantly evolved and refined over the years. NI took the best parts of many different tools that already existed: Electribes (x0x step sequencer, motion sequencing, dedicated mute/solo), Machinedrum (step automation aka step parameter lock), RM1X/RS7K (group buttons to mute/solo groups of sounds), Ableton Live (matrix sequencer with scenes and patterns but adding realtime recording of clip automation, plugin host...), MPCs (16 pads, note repeat, swing, sampling/slicing) and even more old school analog step sequencers (pitch, velocity, position)...etc.
What differentiates Maschine from all the other software-based tools that started off as a software-only tool including Live is that Maschine really feels more like an instrument because the software and hardware were designed together from the beginning so you can control everything from the controller such as browsing/loading of sounds/kits to sampling, slicing, previewing, editing all without ever having to look at the computer screen or touch the mouse. It doesn't feel like you're using software at all.
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SuburbanThug
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Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
Weird. You sound just like a salesman.
The fact remains that I don't know any self respecting musicians other than drummers that would limit themselves to playing an "instrument" that only had a range of 16 notes at a time.
Technically Maschine is an instrument because it makes sound but it's strength in performance lies in your ability to program what it does before performing. For improvising with other musicians it is severely limiting. As a soloist of course you can program it to do whatever you want on those sixteen pads plus scenes but for melodic improvisation it just can't make the cut. How are you going to play chords in the lower registers and leads on the higher registers? You can't. Even when writing music it is limiting in this way because you must first write the lead or the chords (or just part of the chords) then switch to a different register to work on your other part. Obviously a basic midi keyboard makes for a better instrument in writing and improving than Maschine.
The fact remains that I don't know any self respecting musicians other than drummers that would limit themselves to playing an "instrument" that only had a range of 16 notes at a time.
Technically Maschine is an instrument because it makes sound but it's strength in performance lies in your ability to program what it does before performing. For improvising with other musicians it is severely limiting. As a soloist of course you can program it to do whatever you want on those sixteen pads plus scenes but for melodic improvisation it just can't make the cut. How are you going to play chords in the lower registers and leads on the higher registers? You can't. Even when writing music it is limiting in this way because you must first write the lead or the chords (or just part of the chords) then switch to a different register to work on your other part. Obviously a basic midi keyboard makes for a better instrument in writing and improving than Maschine.
Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
SuburbanThug wrote:The fact remains that I don't know any self respecting musicians other than drummers that would limit themselves to playing an "instrument" that only had a range of 16 notes at a time.
Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
I have to admit that my limited time with Push has felt like using an instrument, esp having a larger range of pads to play across.
With Maschine unfortunately you'll need to supplement it with another device (be that keyboard or ipad etc.)to achieve the same thing.
With Maschine unfortunately you'll need to supplement it with another device (be that keyboard or ipad etc.)to achieve the same thing.
Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
Man. This instrument argument is flat out ignorant.
Maschine can play chords and/or leads perfectly fine on its own. Although you probably would be better off playing one Or the other.
When you throw the word 'self respecting' into an argument, I tend to consider you a bafoon by default. It is a term used by people fearful of falling off the imaginary pedestal of superiority they imagine themselves prancing around on.
The truth is, there are many instruments that are monophonic and have limited range. Who the eff cares. You can still play Mary Had a Little Lamb in major, minor, or some other kind of abstraction.
There is easy access to Octave up and down.
Aside from that, although I know that no 'self respecting musician' would bother playing experimental music, it is down for unique forms of pattern and expression given both the limitations of its layout, and also the unique feel and controls that it offers.
There is no point in continuing the useless debate as to which device is more musical than the other. If I want to be inspired, I'm sure I could find a person dedicated to banging rocks together more interesting of a musician due to their dedication to their instrument, than some wank-off 3rd generation jazz pianist with no passion or soul. (I understand that this last statement is full of it, but it still demonstrates the ideals I mean to get across).
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Maschine can play chords and/or leads perfectly fine on its own. Although you probably would be better off playing one Or the other.
When you throw the word 'self respecting' into an argument, I tend to consider you a bafoon by default. It is a term used by people fearful of falling off the imaginary pedestal of superiority they imagine themselves prancing around on.
The truth is, there are many instruments that are monophonic and have limited range. Who the eff cares. You can still play Mary Had a Little Lamb in major, minor, or some other kind of abstraction.
There is easy access to Octave up and down.
Aside from that, although I know that no 'self respecting musician' would bother playing experimental music, it is down for unique forms of pattern and expression given both the limitations of its layout, and also the unique feel and controls that it offers.
There is no point in continuing the useless debate as to which device is more musical than the other. If I want to be inspired, I'm sure I could find a person dedicated to banging rocks together more interesting of a musician due to their dedication to their instrument, than some wank-off 3rd generation jazz pianist with no passion or soul. (I understand that this last statement is full of it, but it still demonstrates the ideals I mean to get across).
NEXT
Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
This. ^yur2die4 wrote:Man. This instrument argument is flat out ignorant.
Maschine can play chords and/or leads perfectly fine on its own. Although you probably would be better off playing one Or the other.
When you throw the word 'self respecting' into an argument, I tend to consider you a bafoon by default. It is a term used by people fearful of falling off the imaginary pedestal of superiority they imagine themselves prancing around on.
The truth is, there are many instruments that are monophonic and have limited range. Who the eff cares. You can still play Mary Had a Little Lamb in major, minor, or some other kind of abstraction.
There is easy access to Octave up and down.
Aside from that, although I know that no 'self respecting musician' would bother playing experimental music, it is down for unique forms of pattern and expression given both the limitations of its layout, and also the unique feel and controls that it offers.
There is no point in continuing the useless debate as to which device is more musical than the other. If I want to be inspired, I'm sure I could find a person dedicated to banging rocks together more interesting of a musician due to their dedication to their instrument, than some wank-off 3rd generation jazz pianist with no passion or soul. (I understand that this last statement is full of it, but it still demonstrates the ideals I mean to get across).
NEXT