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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:46 pm 

Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:33 pm
Posts: 229
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
I had the Maschine Mikro and I hated it. I dont like the work flow of the software and my launchpad works better within ableton. Sold it to buy the push

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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:37 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:27 pm
Posts: 636
milfhuntr wrote:
I used to have a Maschine. It seemed pointless as it added nothing that I wasn't doing already with my nanopad and nanokontrol. Made no sense to keep it. Besides, with my own controllers I can map it any way I like. I have different mappings if I want to control a TR-909 or if I want to control a TR-707 or TB. Whatever I do I can make my own controls.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Just goes to show some people simply don't get it.

milfhuntr wrote:
But Maschine locks you into a format and delivers a very weak lite kind of software on the software end. Their so called mappings were always buggy and weak with NO support on their end.

:roll: That's total BS. It's obvious this guy's just trolling.


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:49 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:28 pm
Posts: 1324
justchris86 wrote:
I had the Maschine Mikro and I hated it. I dont like the work flow of the software and my launchpad works better within ableton. Sold it to buy the push

Should have got the full Maschine instead. You don't really get any of the workflow advantage with the Maschine Mikro since it's missing the knobs and extra displays and will still force you to use the mouse. Maschine Mikro is more for people who are cheap and/or those who're ok with using the mouse.


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:24 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:28 pm
Posts: 1324
Freekster wrote:
delicioso wrote:
login wrote:
the ismorphic keyboard and conform to scales functions can't be done in maschine.

Actually, you can set scales on Maschine's pads to control it's own software in Maschine mode or to control Live or any other software in MIDI mode.

I know it can be done with the Live controller template, how do you set scales to pads to control machine?

You can use either Maschine mode or MIDI mode:

To do it in Maschine mode:
Have a different key scale set in each group, in keyboard/pad mode. Simply tell each pad what note to play, go through the scale across the pads, save it as a project or even a group by group affair for easy recall/transfer to projects or jam sessions.

To do it in MIDI mode:
Make a template and assign notes to different pads in controller editor to play any scale you like.

There's also this handy scale chart method where you just change the root key on Maschine to play the different scales easily:
http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... p?t=163177


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:16 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:02 pm
Posts: 762
Location: South of London
1st unboxing vid I've seen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFfLd8WfyEk
Makes me covet the Push even more now. Does that make me a superficial pleb?

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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:26 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:19 pm
Posts: 279
humnumb wrote:
milfhuntr wrote:
I used to have a Maschine. It seemed pointless as it added nothing that I wasn't doing already with my nanopad and nanokontrol. Made no sense to keep it. Besides, with my own controllers I can map it any way I like. I have different mappings if I want to control a TR-909 or if I want to control a TR-707 or TB. Whatever I do I can make my own controls.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Just goes to show some people simply don't get it.

milfhuntr wrote:
But Maschine locks you into a format and delivers a very weak lite kind of software on the software end. Their so called mappings were always buggy and weak with NO support on their end.

:roll: That's total BS. It's obvious this guy's just trolling.



Whaa?? Go back and look at my posts from over a year ago when I was discussing Maschine. It didn't even have warping or anything. There was not one single thing that Maschine did that I couldn't do with Ableton and any controller you name. I guess they have grudgingly offered warping now, I think I read about something like that. But simply tell me a few things it can do that I can't do with Ableton and the most generic controller.


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:54 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:28 pm
Posts: 1324
milfhuntr wrote:
There was not one single thing that Maschine did that I couldn't do with Ableton and any controller you name.

Sorry but that's just nonsense. How about the fact that you can go completely mouseless (and computer screen-less) with Maschine? Try that with Live with any controller. Maschine was the first and still the only hardware/software combo that allows complete control from the hardware.


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:06 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:48 am
Posts: 14
Location: brooklyn
I love the 64 pads and the scale feature..can i create an arrangement with Push ?


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:03 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 24
Well I own Maschine MK1 for quite a while and I really agree with those who describe Push and Maschine as 2 very different beasts, fan wars generally go pretty much nowhere...

The most important thing for me is creative workflow, how can I translate a musical idea that comes through my head into the computer as fast as possible ?
What is the "instrument" which is more inspiring to play when you're composing ? Which allows you to bring new ideas quickly ?

I don't really see the point of arguments like "X can do this while Y can't" because in the end none of these products are supposed to control EVERYTHING. I really don't care at looking at the computer from time to time as long as my creative flow doesn't get stopped.

On the composing side of things I think Push is exactly what I was waiting for. Features like scales mode, having both step and real time drum programming and integrating live browser is just what I need to get that track quickly and then jam over my first idea.

Once the track has some foundations I think it would be difficult to beat Maschine large pads and access to Komplete sounds if you own that pack.

What I love about Live is that it has created a new sequencer paradigm with its session view, it's all about workflow. Some other sequancers have much more power regarding some functionalities ( particularly midi ) but Live is about working fast and beeing able to play... LIVE. Push represents exactly the same idea, it doesn't try to copy maschine or any other controller but succeeds really well in its concept as beeing an instrument on top of Live 9.

Just my 2 euros... :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:09 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:29 am
Posts: 4369
Location: The Ableton Live Forum
One thing that is a bit of a workflow killer potentially with the push + drum racks combo is the inability to bounce directly to the pad. In Maschine you can have a cpu intensive plug-in loaded and just bounce it to the pad it's on, but with drum racks, I suppose you have to record out to another track and then pull the sample back in. Not the end of the world, but not as nice as just bouncing in place. I think this is something they should have added for Live 9.

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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:27 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:37 pm
Posts: 269
I just got this:

http://www.dv247.com/computer-music-sof ... -8--103052

The thing is, any software based feature will inevitably end up on both platforms eventually. The hardware is what matters the most.

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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:49 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:02 pm
Posts: 762
Location: South of London
Hey JMFone, you were also on the fence over this one.
What were the main things that swayed you to the Machine side?

I really hope Jesse gets a look at this thread; Ableton may lose quite a number of customers and threads like this might give them a good idea why.

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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:24 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:27 pm
Posts: 636
lionelrc wrote:
having both step and real time drum programming

Maschine also has both step and real time sequencing. In Maschine, you can quickly switch back and forth between the step sequencer and the real time sequencer. The Push shows you both sequencing modes at once but the step sequencer is limited to 32 steps from the Push. Maschine's step sequencer doesn't have that limit because it lets you navigate to and control every single step from the hardware regardless of the step resolution.

lionelrc wrote:
What I love about Live is that it has created a new sequencer paradigm with its session view, it's all about workflow.

It is indeed all about the workflow. Maschine also has its own "session view" consisting of scenes and clips. They each offer features that the other doesn't. The big advantage Maschine has over Live + Push is that you can go completely mouse-free and only work by just looking at the hardware for pretty much the entire process of making music. Also, Maschine has always been able to do realtime recording of modulations into clips (which Live still can't do until Live 9 is released) and can do things like looping multiple scenes, all from the hardware.


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:57 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:37 pm
Posts: 269
panten wrote:
Hey JMFone, you were also on the fence over this one.
What were the main things that swayed you to the Machine side?

I really hope Jesse gets a look at this thread; Ableton may lose quite a number of customers and threads like this might give them a good idea why.


Yeah mate I could have gone either way but Maschine is out the door now, it's already proven itself and even refined itself a little. Also, I've been able to watch lots of youtube videos to see how building a track in it works/workflow etc. None of that is available for PUSH yet obviously so no chance to fall in love with it.

Also, I know PUSH is great with the suite, but I'm only really into Operator and Analog, perhaps Sampler if I got used to it. Whereas the thought of using Massive and the rest of komplete on the hardware sounds incredible.

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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:36 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 24
humnumb wrote:
lionelrc wrote:
having both step and real time drum programming

Maschine also has both step and real time sequencing. In Maschine, you can quickly switch back and forth between the step sequencer and the real time sequencer. The Push shows you both sequencing modes at once but the step sequencer is limited to 32 steps from the Push. Maschine's step sequencer doesn't have that limit because it lets you navigate to and control every single step from the hardware regardless of the step resolution.

Yes but you can't do both at the same time, it's one after the other which is not the same.

lionelrc wrote:
What I love about Live is that it has created a new sequencer paradigm with its session view, it's all about workflow.

It is indeed all about the workflow. Maschine also has its own "session view" consisting of scenes and clips. They each offer features that the other doesn't. The big advantage Maschine has over Live + Push is that you can go completely mouse-free and only work by just looking at the hardware for pretty much the entire process of making music. Also, Maschine has always been able to do realtime recording of modulations into clips (which Live still can't do until Live 9 is released) and can do things like looping multiple scenes, all from the hardware.


Well you seems to be a bit of a Maschine fanatic, always comparing both product. As I said I own Maschine as well and really like it but I think that its biggest weakness is actually its sequencer which not nearly as easy to use that Live's.
If you prefer Maschine sequancer to Ableton's then you shouldn't need Ableton at all so there's no issue. But if you use Maschine as a plugin within live maybe it's because Live as a daw is still your first choice. If you want to make music within Live then push is I think the way to go. If you prefer Maschine sequencer then stay with Maschine and forget about Live alltogether.


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