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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:25 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:05 am
Posts: 257
Location: Seattle
The Carpet Cleaner wrote:
Ive Been saying the same thing now everytime someone ask the question :
Both controllers are very good.
If you want to do extensive sampling without touching the mouse, go with maschine.
If you are more of a VSTs guy, doing everything in midi, go with push.
If you have komplete 8 and want to access all it's library with a push of a button, go with maschine.
If you plan on using ableton suite library a lot, go with push.

If you have absolutely no controllers, not even a midi keyboard, I suggest you go with push. Writing melodies with 16 pads is not the best.

why use Push for vsts? it only interacts with Live devices. Maschine however can interact with vsts it just can't call up presets.

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Live 9, Komplete 9, Maschine MK2, IK Total Studio, XLN Audio Addictive Keys and Addictive Drums, All of FXpansion's fx.


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:30 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:41 am
Posts: 726
kevwestbeats wrote:
The Carpet Cleaner wrote:
Ive Been saying the same thing now everytime someone ask the question :
Both controllers are very good.
If you want to do extensive sampling without touching the mouse, go with maschine.
If you are more of a VSTs guy, doing everything in midi, go with push.
If you have komplete 8 and want to access all it's library with a push of a button, go with maschine.
If you plan on using ableton suite library a lot, go with push.

If you have absolutely no controllers, not even a midi keyboard, I suggest you go with push. Writing melodies with 16 pads is not the best.

why use Push for vsts? it only interacts with Live devices. Maschine however can interact with vsts it just can't call up presets.



If you group VST's push can map its 8 encoders to the first eight parameters in the macro controls.


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:36 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:05 am
Posts: 257
Location: Seattle
TheDreamisReaL wrote:
kevwestbeats wrote:
I was having this debate myself recently between Push the Mpc Ren and Maschine. I chose Maschine for the following reasons

- Mature software. Live is Mature but its not built with Push in mind and Push was built to build on what Live is but it is no where near as fluid as Maschine is especially when it comes to using vsts. You can edit, tweak, recall, various vsts and outside of Maschine sounds in Maschine with the controller if you set it up. Push doesn't do this with live and I don't know if it will. I am not willing to wait and hope. Plus I have not seen anything Push can do in Live that Maschine cannot do in Live with the templates. And the Mpc Ren just doesn't work right.

- Midi templates for multiple programs. I can use Maschine as a control surface for Reason and Live as well as use it stand alone. I don't think this is possible with Push and its not possible with the Ren. The Mpc Ren is meant to be a stand alone controller for its own broken software.

- Price. Maschine just offers the best bang for your buck. That is fact. If Push was a $300-$400 controller then sure I might give it a go but at $600 Maschine just offers a lot more in terms of features and ability from what Ableton has told us about Push. Push is designed to control Live devices, clips, mixing, be a piano, and step sequencer. You can call up vsts with Push, you can't warp loops with Push, and a few other things that I cannot think of right now. Maschine does this for the same price.

That is all I can think of right now there were more reasons but those were the main ones.I was on the fence too and I bought Maschine this week because for me it made the most sense.


here is my take on Push vs Maschine......

-IMO I don't think you can even begin to compare Maschine to the combination of Live/Push.....Push controls almost every control every aspect of live and Push isn't really building on what Live does it's just simply the controller for Live that people like myself have been asking for, a hands on controller for Live. Recalling everything you mentioned is just as easy with Live's new browser search and setting up racks of your VST's and recalling them is super easy. There is no comparison for the software Live is wayyyyy ahead and is the complete package with Push, it doesn't get more intuitive than this combo studio or stage. NI has a lot of work to do on the software side seriously they just got time stretching lol and putting songs together on it is a nightmare, if this is Push on version 1 mannnn NI better step it up quick.....Akai has no hope lol

-Pricing seems to fair value because the fact that ableton is a full DAW, even if you purchase Maschine and dont use Ableton at some point your still going to need a DAW to professionally mix and record if you plan on working with ex. Pro Tools etc.... Warping clips is simple as drag and drop if you have it set up to auto warp all taking a few seconds if you wanna loop or slice to a drum rack or change the tempo. I personally don't buy into bang for your buck type of products, Komplete 8 is one of those products but IMO everything in that bundle is subpar at best outside of Kontakt and it being expandable with other 3rd party libraries. I would rather have a library of the best synths and samples vs. having a sub par bundle.

I think it really gets down to how you want to work..... personally I wanted a DAW/Controller combo that could take me from start to finish of a project and allow me to bend audio and really push the envelope and for me Ableton is that. I know we all want to get away from using the mouse and looking at the computer but IMO I think the combo of Live & Push is the perfect balance of that. The computer is the center of everybody's studio and unfortunately there is no getting around looking at the screen & mousing, the thing is to not do it to create from start to finish.

I'm excited about Push my preorder is locked in and like I said you can't compare Maschine to it and vice versa there some things that Maschine does very well but its all based on your needs and mannnnn I needed PUSH!

how does one work with Push and vsts? my understanding is that Push only interacts with vsts and you cannot control the warping window with it either. I was where you are a few months ago and then when i started to really fish for info on Push I found that its really just a controller for Live devices, and a keyboard/pad controller. I am very happy with how Maschine controls Live personally it does pretty much everything I need it to and it really really really well with its own software of course. Sure you can't do much work with audio. You can mix with Maschine its not very fun to do but you can. And at least for me a big plus was the MaschineR software. Knowing I can control Reason, Live and Maschine all from the Maschine controller is a big deal since I plan to use all 3 in tandem.

_________________
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http://www.YouTube.com/DjKevWest
http://www.Facebook.com/KevWestbeats
http://www.Twitter.com/KevWestBeats

Live 9, Komplete 9, Maschine MK2, IK Total Studio, XLN Audio Addictive Keys and Addictive Drums, All of FXpansion's fx.


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:41 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:24 pm
Posts: 32
kevwestbeats wrote:
TheDreamisReaL wrote:
kevwestbeats wrote:
I was having this debate myself recently between Push the Mpc Ren and Maschine. I chose Maschine for the following reasons

- Mature software. Live is Mature but its not built with Push in mind and Push was built to build on what Live is but it is no where near as fluid as Maschine is especially when it comes to using vsts. You can edit, tweak, recall, various vsts and outside of Maschine sounds in Maschine with the controller if you set it up. Push doesn't do this with live and I don't know if it will. I am not willing to wait and hope. Plus I have not seen anything Push can do in Live that Maschine cannot do in Live with the templates. And the Mpc Ren just doesn't work right.

- Midi templates for multiple programs. I can use Maschine as a control surface for Reason and Live as well as use it stand alone. I don't think this is possible with Push and its not possible with the Ren. The Mpc Ren is meant to be a stand alone controller for its own broken software.

- Price. Maschine just offers the best bang for your buck. That is fact. If Push was a $300-$400 controller then sure I might give it a go but at $600 Maschine just offers a lot more in terms of features and ability from what Ableton has told us about Push. Push is designed to control Live devices, clips, mixing, be a piano, and step sequencer. You can call up vsts with Push, you can't warp loops with Push, and a few other things that I cannot think of right now. Maschine does this for the same price.

That is all I can think of right now there were more reasons but those were the main ones.I was on the fence too and I bought Maschine this week because for me it made the most sense.


here is my take on Push vs Maschine......

-IMO I don't think you can even begin to compare Maschine to the combination of Live/Push.....Push controls almost every control every aspect of live and Push isn't really building on what Live does it's just simply the controller for Live that people like myself have been asking for, a hands on controller for Live. Recalling everything you mentioned is just as easy with Live's new browser search and setting up racks of your VST's and recalling them is super easy. There is no comparison for the software Live is wayyyyy ahead and is the complete package with Push, it doesn't get more intuitive than this combo studio or stage. NI has a lot of work to do on the software side seriously they just got time stretching lol and putting songs together on it is a nightmare, if this is Push on version 1 mannnn NI better step it up quick.....Akai has no hope lol

-Pricing seems to fair value because the fact that ableton is a full DAW, even if you purchase Maschine and dont use Ableton at some point your still going to need a DAW to professionally mix and record if you plan on working with ex. Pro Tools etc.... Warping clips is simple as drag and drop if you have it set up to auto warp all taking a few seconds if you wanna loop or slice to a drum rack or change the tempo. I personally don't buy into bang for your buck type of products, Komplete 8 is one of those products but IMO everything in that bundle is subpar at best outside of Kontakt and it being expandable with other 3rd party libraries. I would rather have a library of the best synths and samples vs. having a sub par bundle.

I think it really gets down to how you want to work..... personally I wanted a DAW/Controller combo that could take me from start to finish of a project and allow me to bend audio and really push the envelope and for me Ableton is that. I know we all want to get away from using the mouse and looking at the computer but IMO I think the combo of Live & Push is the perfect balance of that. The computer is the center of everybody's studio and unfortunately there is no getting around looking at the screen & mousing, the thing is to not do it to create from start to finish.

I'm excited about Push my preorder is locked in and like I said you can't compare Maschine to it and vice versa there some things that Maschine does very well but its all based on your needs and mannnnn I needed PUSH!

how does one work with Push and vsts? my understanding is that Push only interacts with vsts and you cannot control the warping window with it either. I was where you are a few months ago and then when i started to really fish for info on Push I found that its really just a controller for Live devices, and a keyboard/pad controller. I am very happy with how Maschine controls Live personally it does pretty much everything I need it to and it really really really well with its own software of course. Sure you can't do much work with audio. You can mix with Maschine its not very fun to do but you can. And at least for me a big plus was the MaschineR software. Knowing I can control Reason, Live and Maschine all from the Maschine controller is a big deal since I plan to use all 3 in tandem.


Create and save a rack for your VST and those macros cans be mapped for push.......Set your warp to auto and once its warped push can adjust the start and end which can be saved to a drum rack and recalled.....One of Live's most powerful features is creating and saving racks and with Push you control over the controls you wants to assign to the macros....Maschine is a joke to mix on and dont get me started on that scene mode and offline time stretching lol like I said homie it just depends on what your goal is for me Push is what ive been waiting for....I cant speak for controlling other daw's I only use Ableton, Maschine is not close by a long shot of what Push is for Live both are control by there respective softwares and its not a comparison Live 9 is game changing


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:04 am 

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 1076
Location: Paris
kevwestbeats wrote:
The Carpet Cleaner wrote:
Ive Been saying the same thing now everytime someone ask the question :
Both controllers are very good.
If you want to do extensive sampling without touching the mouse, go with maschine.
If you are more of a VSTs guy, doing everything in midi, go with push.
If you have komplete 8 and want to access all it's library with a push of a button, go with maschine.
If you plan on using ableton suite library a lot, go with push.

If you have absolutely no controllers, not even a midi keyboard, I suggest you go with push. Writing melodies with 16 pads is not the best.

why use Push for vsts? it only interacts with Live devices. Maschine however can interact with vsts it just can't call up presets.

Because then you can just stay within Live and keep it simple.


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:09 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:24 pm
Posts: 32
The Carpet Cleaner wrote:
kevwestbeats wrote:
The Carpet Cleaner wrote:
Ive Been saying the same thing now everytime someone ask the question :
Both controllers are very good.
If you want to do extensive sampling without touching the mouse, go with maschine.
If you are more of a VSTs guy, doing everything in midi, go with push.
If you have komplete 8 and want to access all it's library with a push of a button, go with maschine.
If you plan on using ableton suite library a lot, go with push.

If you have absolutely no controllers, not even a midi keyboard, I suggest you go with push. Writing melodies with 16 pads is not the best.

why use Push for vsts? it only interacts with Live devices. Maschine however can interact with vsts it just can't call up presets.

Because then you can just stay within Live and keep it simple.

Agreed....keep it simple, live runs laps around Maschine not even close


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:11 am 

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 1076
Location: Paris
TheDreamisReaL wrote:
Create and save a rack for your VST and those macros cans be mapped for push.......Set your warp to auto and once its warped push can adjust the start and end which can be saved to a drum rack and recalled.....One of Live's most powerful features is creating and saving racks and with Push you control over the controls you wants to assign to the macros....Maschine is a joke to mix on and dont get me started on that scene mode and offline time stretching lol like I said homie it just depends on what your goal is for me Push is what ive been waiting for....I cant speak for controlling other daw's I only use Ableton, Maschine is not close by a long shot of what Push is for Live both are control by there respective softwares and its not a comparison Live 9 is game changing


I think you re comparing different things homie.
Try to record an audio track, slice it, copy, edit, apply effects and fill your entire drum rack full of micro samples with push without touching the mouse or keyboard. I wish you good luck.
You can do that with maschine.


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:24 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:24 pm
Posts: 32
The Carpet Cleaner wrote:
TheDreamisReaL wrote:
Create and save a rack for your VST and those macros cans be mapped for push.......Set your warp to auto and once its warped push can adjust the start and end which can be saved to a drum rack and recalled.....One of Live's most powerful features is creating and saving racks and with Push you control over the controls you wants to assign to the macros....Maschine is a joke to mix on and dont get me started on that scene mode and offline time stretching lol like I said homie it just depends on what your goal is for me Push is what ive been waiting for....I cant speak for controlling other daw's I only use Ableton, Maschine is not close by a long shot of what Push is for Live both are control by there respective softwares and its not a comparison Live 9 is game changing


I think you re comparing different things homie.
Try to record an audio track, slice it, copy, edit, apply effects and fill your entire drum rack full of micro samples with push without touching the mouse or keyboard. I wish you good luck.
You can do that with maschine.


Nope Im not....Im not looking to not touch my mouse or keyboard the majority of what you just named can all be done from the push controller....add & record a track, set the bar length, punch in, apply effects, duplicate it,scroll thru drum racks of samples, search for kits, automate etc its all there....The only time would be using my mouse would be to slice using the warp markers which takes all of seconds to do and be mapped easily......


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:33 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:54 pm
Posts: 4
I'd go with Maschine if for no other reason than NI actually has a product on the market that you can buy. We're now going on almost 4 months since Push was announced and there is absolutely no indication of when it will actually be available. It looks like a nice product, but it would be nice to have some idea of when it will be available. I'm close to giving up on it and just buying something else since I'm tired of waiting.


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:34 am 

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 1076
Location: Paris
TheDreamisReaL wrote:
The Carpet Cleaner wrote:
TheDreamisReaL wrote:
Create and save a rack for your VST and those macros cans be mapped for push.......Set your warp to auto and once its warped push can adjust the start and end which can be saved to a drum rack and recalled.....One of Live's most powerful features is creating and saving racks and with Push you control over the controls you wants to assign to the macros....Maschine is a joke to mix on and dont get me started on that scene mode and offline time stretching lol like I said homie it just depends on what your goal is for me Push is what ive been waiting for....I cant speak for controlling other daw's I only use Ableton, Maschine is not close by a long shot of what Push is for Live both are control by there respective softwares and its not a comparison Live 9 is game changing


I think you re comparing different things homie.
Try to record an audio track, slice it, copy, edit, apply effects and fill your entire drum rack full of micro samples with push without touching the mouse or keyboard. I wish you good luck.
You can do that with maschine.


Nope Im not....Im not looking to not touch my mouse or keyboard the majority of what you just named can all be done from the push controller....add & record a track, set the bar length, punch in, apply effects, duplicate it,scroll thru drum racks of samples, search for kits, automate etc its all there....The only time would be using my mouse would be to slice using the warp markers which takes all of seconds to do and be mapped easily......

Hum then I guess you haven't had the chance to work with samples on maschine :)
Have you tried push yet?


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:55 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:24 pm
Posts: 32
Yep I have Maschine and come from a background of owning almost every MPC and dont use any of them anymore and Im not knocking what Maschine does but its impossible to compare push and live to it, two different monsters....most of the maschine users I know still drag and drop into a DAW or export and dont even bother trying to arrange a song inside of Maschine. Working with samples for me I work faster in ableton and the effects with warping is not like anything ive seen in maschine or anything else. I've had the chance to put my hands on push and I knew immediately that it was serious combined with what live 9 has, like I said almost everything you mentioned can be done from the push controller and as much as we want to get away from the mouse & keyboard but you can't for me its gotta be a balance. Plus for me Im on the road alot and without maschine plugged in I cant use the Maschine software


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:23 am 

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 1076
Location: Paris
TheDreamisReaL wrote:
Yep I have Maschine and come from a background of owning almost every MPC and dont use any of them anymore and Im not knocking what Maschine does but its impossible to compare push and live to it, two different monsters....most of the maschine users I know still drag and drop into a DAW or export and dont even bother trying to arrange a song inside of Maschine. Working with samples for me I work faster in ableton and the effects with warping is not like anything ive seen in maschine or anything else. I've had the chance to put my hands on push and I knew immediately that it was serious combined with what live 9 has, like I said almost everything you mentioned can be done from the push controller and as much as we want to get away from the mouse & keyboard but you can't for me its gotta be a balance. Plus for me Im on the road alot and without maschine plugged in I cant use the Maschine software

Since it was explained in the push thread that you could not see the waveform on the LCD I wonder how you can manipulate sample like you can on maschine.


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:38 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:24 pm
Posts: 32
The Carpet Cleaner wrote:
TheDreamisReaL wrote:
Yep I have Maschine and come from a background of owning almost every MPC and dont use any of them anymore and Im not knocking what Maschine does but its impossible to compare push and live to it, two different monsters....most of the maschine users I know still drag and drop into a DAW or export and dont even bother trying to arrange a song inside of Maschine. Working with samples for me I work faster in ableton and the effects with warping is not like anything ive seen in maschine or anything else. I've had the chance to put my hands on push and I knew immediately that it was serious combined with what live 9 has, like I said almost everything you mentioned can be done from the push controller and as much as we want to get away from the mouse & keyboard but you can't for me its gotta be a balance. Plus for me Im on the road alot and without maschine plugged in I cant use the Maschine software

Since it was explained in the push thread that you could not see the waveform on the LCD I wonder how you can manipulate sample like you can on maschine.


So would you rather look at the small screens of maschine vs looking at my beautiful macbook pro retina display for the waveform lol......Manipulate the samples in a drum rack is easy setup what you want to control and there assigned to the macros whether its filter or start points or whatever you want to control they can be mapped to the 8 knobs on push and any fine tune adjustments I would use the huge screen in front of me....Waveform editing on maschine controller is overrated when I can get a better view of it on a larger screen and simply make the adjustments.....huge difference and where I see the advantage of Live is being able to warp that audio very easily and really have control over the samples


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:44 am 

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 1076
Location: Paris
TheDreamisReaL wrote:
The Carpet Cleaner wrote:
TheDreamisReaL wrote:
Yep I have Maschine and come from a background of owning almost every MPC and dont use any of them anymore and Im not knocking what Maschine does but its impossible to compare push and live to it, two different monsters....most of the maschine users I know still drag and drop into a DAW or export and dont even bother trying to arrange a song inside of Maschine. Working with samples for me I work faster in ableton and the effects with warping is not like anything ive seen in maschine or anything else. I've had the chance to put my hands on push and I knew immediately that it was serious combined with what live 9 has, like I said almost everything you mentioned can be done from the push controller and as much as we want to get away from the mouse & keyboard but you can't for me its gotta be a balance. Plus for me Im on the road alot and without maschine plugged in I cant use the Maschine software

Since it was explained in the push thread that you could not see the waveform on the LCD I wonder how you can manipulate sample like you can on maschine.


So would you rather look at the small screens of maschine vs looking at my beautiful macbook pro retina display for the waveform lol......Manipulate the samples in a drum rack is easy setup what you want to control and there assigned to the macros whether its filter or start points or whatever you want to control they can be mapped to the 8 knobs on push and any fine tune adjustments I would use the huge screen in front of me....Waveform editing on maschine controller is overrated when I can get a better view of it on a larger screen and simply make the adjustments.....huge difference and where I see the advantage of Live is being able to warp that audio very easily and really have control over the samples

There is a beautiful waveform on the maschine software as well, but over time I realized that when into it, I'm not watching the screen anymore... It's weird it's like using an instrument. I'll get a Push as well because the layout for playing melodies in vst seems great.


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:45 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:24 pm
Posts: 32
Yea buddy that note mode is something serious, scales and chords just became easy for folks that aren't trained


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