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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:10 am 

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:05 am
Posts: 257
Location: Seattle
TheDreamisReaL wrote:
kevwestbeats wrote:
TheDreamisReaL wrote:
here is my take on Push vs Maschine......

-IMO I don't think you can even begin to compare Maschine to the combination of Live/Push.....Push controls almost every control every aspect of live and Push isn't really building on what Live does it's just simply the controller for Live that people like myself have been asking for, a hands on controller for Live. Recalling everything you mentioned is just as easy with Live's new browser search and setting up racks of your VST's and recalling them is super easy. There is no comparison for the software Live is wayyyyy ahead and is the complete package with Push, it doesn't get more intuitive than this combo studio or stage. NI has a lot of work to do on the software side seriously they just got time stretching lol and putting songs together on it is a nightmare, if this is Push on version 1 mannnn NI better step it up quick.....Akai has no hope lol

-Pricing seems to fair value because the fact that ableton is a full DAW, even if you purchase Maschine and dont use Ableton at some point your still going to need a DAW to professionally mix and record if you plan on working with ex. Pro Tools etc.... Warping clips is simple as drag and drop if you have it set up to auto warp all taking a few seconds if you wanna loop or slice to a drum rack or change the tempo. I personally don't buy into bang for your buck type of products, Komplete 8 is one of those products but IMO everything in that bundle is subpar at best outside of Kontakt and it being expandable with other 3rd party libraries. I would rather have a library of the best synths and samples vs. having a sub par bundle.

I think it really gets down to how you want to work..... personally I wanted a DAW/Controller combo that could take me from start to finish of a project and allow me to bend audio and really push the envelope and for me Ableton is that. I know we all want to get away from using the mouse and looking at the computer but IMO I think the combo of Live & Push is the perfect balance of that. The computer is the center of everybody's studio and unfortunately there is no getting around looking at the screen & mousing, the thing is to not do it to create from start to finish.

I'm excited about Push my preorder is locked in and like I said you can't compare Maschine to it and vice versa there some things that Maschine does very well but its all based on your needs and mannnnn I needed PUSH!

how does one work with Push and vsts? my understanding is that Push only interacts with vsts and you cannot control the warping window with it either. I was where you are a few months ago and then when i started to really fish for info on Push I found that its really just a controller for Live devices, and a keyboard/pad controller. I am very happy with how Maschine controls Live personally it does pretty much everything I need it to and it really really really well with its own software of course. Sure you can't do much work with audio. You can mix with Maschine its not very fun to do but you can. And at least for me a big plus was the MaschineR software. Knowing I can control Reason, Live and Maschine all from the Maschine controller is a big deal since I plan to use all 3 in tandem.


Create and save a rack for your VST and those macros cans be mapped for push.......Set your warp to auto and once its warped push can adjust the start and end which can be saved to a drum rack and recalled.....One of Live's most powerful features is creating and saving racks and with Push you control over the controls you wants to assign to the macros....Maschine is a joke to mix on and dont get me started on that scene mode and offline time stretching lol like I said homie it just depends on what your goal is for me Push is what ive been waiting for....I cant speak for controlling other daw's I only use Ableton, Maschine is not close by a long shot of what Push is for Live both are control by there respective softwares and its not a comparison Live 9 is game changing

Whatever works for you I guess. To me Maschine is the shit and I really liked the concept of Push when I first heard about it but the more I heard about it the less interested I became in it. I am not saying that Maschine is a complete production tool that's not the point of Maschine its a groove box but a very powerful controller too. I haven't seen anything suggesting that Push did what you are talking about and many of those things are exactly why I chose to go another route.

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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:11 am 

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:05 am
Posts: 257
Location: Seattle
The Carpet Cleaner wrote:
kevwestbeats wrote:
The Carpet Cleaner wrote:
Ive Been saying the same thing now everytime someone ask the question :
Both controllers are very good.
If you want to do extensive sampling without touching the mouse, go with maschine.
If you are more of a VSTs guy, doing everything in midi, go with push.
If you have komplete 8 and want to access all it's library with a push of a button, go with maschine.
If you plan on using ableton suite library a lot, go with push.

If you have absolutely no controllers, not even a midi keyboard, I suggest you go with push. Writing melodies with 16 pads is not the best.

why use Push for vsts? it only interacts with Live devices. Maschine however can interact with vsts it just can't call up presets.

Because then you can just stay within Live and keep it simple.

Maschine doesn't force you to leave Live. Load it as a plug in and its just like any other plug in. Hell you don't even have to use the Maschine controller if you don't want to. Don't see much point to that though.

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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:13 am 

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:05 am
Posts: 257
Location: Seattle
TheDreamisReaL wrote:
Agreed....keep it simple, live runs laps around Maschine not even close

Why compare a plug in to a DAW? For what Maschine does I feel it does it in many ways better than Live or at least differently enough for me to prefer it and many others I have run into as well. I missed working on my old hardware samplers and drum machines and Maschine brought that workflow back to me. I like that about it plus it takes full advantage of my computer power. What's not to love? Its not a DAW not even a DAW replacement.

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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:12 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm
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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:47 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:24 pm
Posts: 32
TomViolenz wrote:
@TheDreamisReaL

I think that it is pretty clear that you already made up your mind. Which is great because I want Push and Maschine to strive so competition will make both better over time.
(and I think it has become clear in this thread that both solutions are not perfect yet)

But this:

Quote:
Komplete 8 is one of those products but IMO everything in that bundle is subpar at best outside of Kontakt and it being expandable with other 3rd party libraries.


is just as ridiculous as

your: "homie" and "...lol..." are childish!

Please at least drop the latter!


Pause.....................who are you to correct me on the words I choose to use chill out and keep it on the topic at hand but anyway Like I said Komplete 8 wasn't for me with Kontakt & Massive being the only things worthwhile in having, I would take Omnisphere, Trillian, Tone2 Plugs, Sylenth and a few others over buying a huge bundle IMO...........homie


Last edited by TheDreamisReaL on Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:54 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:24 pm
Posts: 32
kevwestbeats wrote:
TheDreamisReaL wrote:
Agreed....keep it simple, live runs laps around Maschine not even close

Why compare a plug in to a DAW? For what Maschine does I feel it does it in many ways better than Live or at least differently enough for me to prefer it and many others I have run into as well. I missed working on my old hardware samplers and drum machines and Maschine brought that workflow back to me. I like that about it plus it takes full advantage of my computer power. What's not to love? Its not a DAW not even a DAW replacement.


I feel you I just don't see whats done in Maschine that it does better than live especially with push being added.....Not knocking it Maschine is a dope product in its own right


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:44 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm
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Last edited by TomViolenz on Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:55 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:24 pm
Posts: 32
TomViolenz wrote:
TheDreamisReaL wrote:
Pause.....................who are you to correct me


A random guy on the internet, whose handle you can see on the left side next to my post :D

Quote:
Like I said Komplete 8 wasn't for me with Kontakt & Massive being the only things worthwhile (For You) in having, I would take Omnisphere, Trillian, Tone2 Plugs, Sylenth and a few others over buying a huge bundle IMO


Well fair enough, but that's not usually what one means when one writes "the whole bundle is sub-par, is it?!

Quote:
...........homie


You just couldn't help yourself now, could you... :wink:


I like your style TOmmyV 8) ok maybe I went a lil overboard with subpar but I think there are higher quality sounds just depends on what you like me everything starts with Spectrasonics


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:19 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:21 am
Posts: 3127
Location: Shreveport LA, sometimes Dallas/Ft Worth TX
TheDreamisReaL wrote:
Push controls almost every control every aspect of live and Push isn't really building on what Live does it's just simply the controller for Live that people like myself have been asking for,


No doubt Push looks great, and offers the control people have been asking for.
BUT, can you
Adjust user waveforms in Operator
Adjust Sampler Start/End points
Store/Recall Rack parameters
Make a sequencer style melody without some wacky workaround with a drumRack and/or M4L
Record Automation of Return Tracks and their racks Macros
load a Space Echo emulator or Reverb that sounds good
navigate to something in Arrange view and adjust anything

I could go on and on.
Not that Maschine does any of that either, I found Maschine to be annoying when trying to use it within Ableton.
Nevertheless, I got a lot of love invested in Ableton, NI, controllers and hardware, yet I see a lot of room for improvement.
Live 9 is gonna be great, but there are still a lot of things missing.
For "almost every aspect" of Live you can name, that you control, I bet I can name one you cant.
I'm gonna go one further too,
I bet customizing PUSH with Traktor is way easier and more flexible that it will be in Ableton Live for years.

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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:32 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm
Posts: 2888
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Last edited by TomViolenz on Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:55 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:27 pm
Posts: 636
TheDreamisReaL wrote:
Push controls almost every control every aspect of live

No. It really doesn't.

TheDreamisReaL wrote:
Komplete 8 is one of those products but IMO everything in that bundle is subpar at best outside of Kontakt and it being expandable with other 3rd party libraries.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

TheDreamisReaL wrote:
unfortunately there is no getting around looking at the screen & mousing

There is with Maschine.

TheDreamisReaL wrote:
Im on the road alot and without maschine plugged in I cant use the Maschine software

Wrong. You've always been able to use the Maschine software on its own without the Maschine hardware plugged in.


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:06 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm
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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:37 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:28 pm
Posts: 1324
JMFOne wrote:
To be honest, that video at the top of the page really turned me off machine. He spent so much time just setting things up. Very little actual music production. My 1st priority is to eliminate the things that get in the way of achieving something and this just looks like more unproductive distractions.

Don't get the wrong impression. You don't need to set anything up beforehand to use Maschine.

The video is only about using the supplied Live template to control Live with the Maschine hardware (which is not the main point of Maschine in the first place). They were just nice enough to slowly go through the step-by-step process of loading the Live template on the Maschine controller and setting up Live to use Maschine as a control surface (just as you would do with any other MIDI controller) for people who have no idea about any of this. It's very simple stuff. There's no hacks, tedious workarounds, or rocket science involved.


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:20 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:24 pm
Posts: 32
humnumb wrote:
TheDreamisReaL wrote:
Push controls almost every control every aspect of live

No. It really doesn't.

TheDreamisReaL wrote:
Komplete 8 is one of those products but IMO everything in that bundle is subpar at best outside of Kontakt and it being expandable with other 3rd party libraries.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

TheDreamisReaL wrote:
unfortunately there is no getting around looking at the screen & mousing

There is with Maschine.

TheDreamisReaL wrote:
Im on the road alot and without maschine plugged in I cant use the Maschine software

Wrong. You've always been able to use the Maschine software on its own without the Maschine hardware plugged in.


1. What doesn't push control in live? From what i've seen it controls the majority functions that are most used....

2. Not a fan of Komplete just not my choice

3. Not true at all.....most of the people who are using it aren't arranging complete songs inside of Maschine, complaining about looking at a laptop screen is dead and not that big of a deal

4. I've yet to see anybody even attempt to use Maschine without the controller, not the case for Live

We could have this debate all day long but it really gets down to your choice of workflow and if Maschine works for you stick with it, for me ableton & push is that just IMO


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:27 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:05 am
Posts: 44
The fact that there are so many FAMOUS PEOPLE who use Push is by far the best marketing ever. Ableton didn't have to pay a cent, and come on! FAMOUS PEOPLE! No further questions, just buy it.


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