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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:22 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:46 am
Posts: 1420
maschine isn't perfomance controller too. it's a software based drum machine.

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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 5:33 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:08 pm
Posts: 18
I'm sorry,but I use hardware.This sounds more like a tv remote control question :lol: Buy the one with the most features,like the harmony remote,lmfao.Maschine,has almost fully matured with it's OS updates.Why buy a ripe grape,when you can have a nice glass of wine?Don't let the pretty lights on the push fool you.The pretty lights on maschine were earned.However,maschine isn't stand alone and uses more software,you're going to have to learn.Push,is used soley inside of ableton Live.

It really comes down to work flow,and what you're trying to do in the studio.The mouse is still gold inside of Ableton Live.It depends how lazy you want to become inside of Ableton Live.Push,might make you a tad bit more creative,but it will also make you a tad bit lazy aswell.


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 8:04 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:23 pm
Posts: 6473
Location: Seattle, WA.
I'm not sure what country you're from, but in America we use space bars.

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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:40 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:51 am
Posts: 537
Location: The Antipodes
scpjrprius wrote:
Push,might make you a tad bit more creative,but it will also make you a tad bit lazy aswell.

Really? Please explain.
...and yes, the space bar is that long horizontal key at the bottom of most keyboards... strangely, most people do use them, not just Americans!

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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 1:20 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:02 pm
Posts: 761
Location: South of London
*sigh*

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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:27 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:23 pm
Posts: 6473
Location: Seattle, WA.
artpunk wrote:
scpjrprius wrote:
Push,might make you a tad bit more creative,but it will also make you a tad bit lazy aswell.

Really? Please explain.
...and yes, the space bar is that long horizontal key at the bottom of most keyboards... strangely, most people do use them, not just Americans!


Good point. I should've been more specific and said, in Seattle we use space bars. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 7:30 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:02 am
Posts: 3494
Location: Menasha, Wisconsin
I don't think he has any clue what he is saying. He edited his post before anyone initially replied to it.

He was suggesting external hardware solutions like te Mopho for Ableton Live. Which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Aside from desperately attempting to get people responding to his intentionally brash statements. Maybe not hitting the spacebar equates to "I'm just rufflin' yer feathers guyz :lol: !!"


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 5:35 pm 

Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 4:58 pm
Posts: 3
It seems to me the issue is for creating material. For me the bottom line was the instruments and sounds. I prefer NIs, by a lot, so Maschine/Komplete it is for the integration. (I wish NI had kept with Kore, could have used Kore for sounds and Push for production). Maschine and a lauchpad and a keyboard are all you need. Use LIVE for tracking and arranging, and for building complex rack effects if that is your thing, in which case you are going to to have to use the mouse a lot anyway.

Btw, if you really need to "see" your step sequence for simple beats then you might want to work on building internal rhythm. If you're making a crazy beat then aren't you going to want to see it on the screen anyway where you can see all the notes on a big grid? I mean how helpful is seeing ONE note spread over four rows of 8? It seems to me it would be faster experimenting with the draw tool, than switching between different drum notes on the PUSH. Re sounds: if you really need to push buttons locked to a fixed key to "play" a VI, then you might want to learn how to play a keyboard. 15 minutes a day and in a year you will be really really glad you did it. It will open up things incredibly. It will move you away from programming and toward musicianship

Also, resist gear lust. Push is really expensive. Buy the Maschine and then wait a year and get PUSH off ebay for $200 or so. People buy stuff and never use it and then end up selling it at a big loss. I think you can still find great deals on MK1s. Pretty lights are nice, but if you use your mind and ears you don't really need all that.


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 6:01 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:02 pm
Posts: 761
Location: South of London
If I had given in to gear lust I would have gone for a Maschine way back when. I held off, did my research and pre-ordered Push. I love the workflow. I'm a pretty experienced finger tapper and I LOVE having access to the step Sequencer at the same time.

When PXT-Live hits the shelves, Push workflow is going to go through the roof. Especially for messing around with the content you have given birth to.
..also I don't think the 'in key' mode can be so easily dismissed. From what I've heard even experienced pianists are finding that Push is making them write in fresh new ways.

P.s. I still have gear-lust for Maschine. Not knocking that thing at all. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 6:12 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:22 am
Posts: 1401
bradyp69 wrote:
It seems to me the issue is for creating material. For me the bottom line was the instruments and sounds. I prefer NIs, by a lot, so Maschine/Komplete it is for the integration. (I wish NI had kept with Kore, could have used Kore for sounds and Push for production). Maschine and a lauchpad and a keyboard are all you need. Use LIVE for tracking and arranging, and for building complex rack effects if that is your thing, in which case you are going to to have to use the mouse a lot anyway.

Btw, if you really need to "see" your step sequence for simple beats then you might want to work on building internal rhythm. If you're making a crazy beat then aren't you going to want to see it on the screen anyway where you can see all the notes on a big grid? I mean how helpful is seeing ONE note spread over four rows of 8? It seems to me it would be faster experimenting with the draw tool, than switching between different drum notes on the PUSH. Re sounds: if you really need to push buttons locked to a fixed key to "play" a VI, then you might want to learn how to play a keyboard. 15 minutes a day and in a year you will be really really glad you did it. It will open up things incredibly. It will move you away from programming and toward musicianship

Also, resist gear lust. Push is really expensive. Buy the Maschine and then wait a year and get PUSH off ebay for $200 or so. People buy stuff and never use it and then end up selling it at a big loss. I think you can still find great deals on MK1s. Pretty lights are nice, but if you use your mind and ears you don't really need all that.

I use the Push mainly for playing melodies that would be awkward and cumbersome on Maschine. It's secondary use is drum programming.

This thread is so dumb.

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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 6:30 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:02 pm
Posts: 761
Location: South of London
SuburbanThug wrote:
This thread is so dumb.
I'm with you there brother, 100%.

I'm regretting starting it with every fibre in my body. It's too long, boring and everything that needs to be said HAS been said, repeatedly. Let's just tuck it in and read it a bedtime story shall we?

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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 9:45 pm 

Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 4:58 pm
Posts: 3
I'm sorry you feel that way; I'm really glad you started the post. I have learned a lot about workflow from others and picked up some ideas I'm keen to try out. I hope it helps that at least someone appreciates it and has benefited. Cheers.


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 12:49 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:36 pm
Posts: 95
djadonis206 wrote:
Oh wow the Akai Mac 49 won. That's a quality controller keyboard...

Hum, not to belabor the point, but can you post one of your YouTubes that details how to copy a midi clip from Maschine to Ableton and retain the recorded automation from Maschine. I can't figure out how to do that.

Also, can you post one of your YouTubes that shows how to layer drums and control the individual layers. I can layer the drums but have no control of the individual samples. You seem to know the software inside out and figured you'd be the right person to ask. Thanks in advance!


No intention of supporting one side or the other in this little ding dong (I got both devices - well I will have when I finally get my Push!!!) but I will give an answer to your questions.
It is a bit unfair to expect automation recorded in one DAW to be copied to a different DAW. Even if it was a set of cc values it would be meaningless if the parameter being controlled was not the same( Live and Maschine do not have the same devices). If I wanted the sonic result of the automation I would copy the audio file into Live.
If you use the master slave facility in Maschine you can layer drums and retain control of individual samples (obviously you can do a lot more in Live's drum or instrument racks).


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 2:43 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:36 pm
Posts: 1124
Location: Berlin
djadonis206 wrote:
I'm not sure what country you're from, but in America we use space bars.


you mean in southamerica ?


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 Post subject: Re: Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 4:35 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:23 pm
Posts: 6473
Location: Seattle, WA.
Sional wrote:
djadonis206 wrote:
Oh wow the Akai Mac 49 won. That's a quality controller keyboard...

Hum, not to belabor the point, but can you post one of your YouTubes that details how to copy a midi clip from Maschine to Ableton and retain the recorded automation from Maschine. I can't figure out how to do that.

Also, can you post one of your YouTubes that shows how to layer drums and control the individual layers. I can layer the drums but have no control of the individual samples. You seem to know the software inside out and figured you'd be the right person to ask. Thanks in advance!


No intention of supporting one side or the other in this little ding dong (I got both devices - well I will have when I finally get my Push!!!) but I will give an answer to your questions.
It is a bit unfair to expect automation recorded in one DAW to be copied to a different DAW. Even if it was a set of cc values it would be meaningless if the parameter being controlled was not the same( Live and Maschine do not have the same devices). If I wanted the sonic result of the automation I would copy the audio file into Live.
If you use the master slave facility in Maschine you can layer drums and retain control of individual samples (obviously you can do a lot more in Live's drum or instrument racks).


I wouldn't get to wrapped up in my above post. However, I didn't think copying automation was possible until I started using Geist. You can make drum loops in the Geist sequencer and apply all sorts of automation. Then drag and drop the midi file to Live or Logic and everything copies over and plays back perfectly, automation and all.

I don't really use geist as much these days though

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