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Are you getting PUSH?
Yes, on march 5 33%  33%  [ 65 ]
Yes, later when the price goes down 32%  32%  [ 63 ]
No. 34%  34%  [ 67 ]
Total votes : 195
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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting PUSH?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:45 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:27 pm
Posts: 636
H20nly wrote:
humnumb wrote:
H20nly wrote:
but pads are like shoes... some people will like them and some will hate them. MPC - case and point. you say you hate the very pads that at least 2 decades of hip hop depended on. JDilla liked em. different strokes i guess. *shrugs*
It's not just a case of "different strokes" or mere preferences though. During the those 2 decades that the MPCs existed, there weren't many other alternatives available like today. If Maschine, padKontrol, triggerfinger...etc. existed back then, they would still have wiped the floor with Akai pads in terms of sensitivity/responsiveness as they do today.
but... essentially... what you just said is that they work fine.

No. What I said essentially is that Akai's pads from MPCs to MPD/MPK/LPD/Ren...etc. always had poor response and sensitivity (especially compared to what's available now) but people used them because it was pretty much the only game in town at the time. My point is that if other options like Maschine/padKontrol/Triggerfinger...etc. were available then, those same MPC users would have noticed the drastic difference.

H20nly wrote:
some of the most legendary albums that the hip hop genre will probably ever see were made with them... before it was all about being a thug and alcohol and cloths and recording albums in your living room.

Not sure what this has to do with anything being discussed in this thread but ok...?

H20nly wrote:
to keep with the shoe analogy; it's like you're saying Magic Johnson or Larry Bird could never have been such key players without a dope pair of Nike Air. :?

No. You're the one that keeps bringing up your show analogies and I never said anything remotely like that. You're the one that keeps bringing up irrelevant things liek "2 decades of hiphop, JDilla, legendary albums, key players", not me.

H20nly wrote:
remember, these are DRUM pads not keys. they're not meant to be pussy footing around with. they're meant to be hit.

Actually, the pads on Maschine/Ren/Push are not just meant for drums. And the difference in sensitivity do make a big difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting PUSH?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:56 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:02 am
Posts: 3494
Location: Menasha, Wisconsin
My mom had pretty great pads for beating on until she hit menopause.

....too far? :(


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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting PUSH?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:06 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Posts: 12993
Location: The Wild West
:roll: oh joy! now were breaking down posts play by play.

please say the same thing again just slightly reworded! maybe this time i'll get it.
they only worked fine because there was nothing else. - better?

hip hop [80s & 90s - damn near synonymous with MPCs] wasn't mentioned previously... :?
yeah, it was but it's only OT this time. <--i always love that move.

what ever dude. i can tell, at this point, you're a $200.00 tennis shoe kinda guy... i'll keep rockin my Puma Roma while you pump it up.

maybe Maschine II will have a cup holder and little pieces of velvet on the pads for ya. :wink:



H20nly wrote:
different strokes i guess. *shrugs*

this.



fuck PUSH. too expensive
:arrow:


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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting PUSH?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:19 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:02 pm
Posts: 761
Location: South of London
delicioso wrote:
The pads on the Ren are also no different to other Akai pads. They may all have slightly different "feel" to them but their fundamental design flaw is the same which is why they still have a poor response in comparison to what's available.

Sorry I was under the impression that they did a re-design for the Ren pads. I recall a video sent round on the MPC forums from the devs during the beta testing ( humbnumb/emptysea might also remember) where they were di****g around with the new pads they'd just installed.

delicioso wrote:
Actually I got to do a side-by-side comparison between them and the difference is night and day. On Machine I can put in a synth patch, and play it smoothly on the pads. Do trills, fast type stuff. On the Ren, when I did the same thing (same sound) I got some double triggers and it was not near as fluid sounding due to the lower sensitivity.

I also got to do a side-by-side comparison between them and I have to say that my experience was quite the opposite. They are both subtle enough for nuanced performance. The Maschine pads even felt a little too loose but that might have been because it was a shop floor model that had seen quite a bit of abuse. To me the difference between them was pretty negligible and not really worthy of lengthy debate.

I can't wait to have some time with Push.
This video fills me with great confidence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8Yl0aUcE54

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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting PUSH?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:35 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:28 pm
Posts: 1322
panten wrote:
delicioso wrote:
Actually I got to do a side-by-side comparison between them and the difference is night and day. On Machine I can put in a synth patch, and play it smoothly on the pads. Do trills, fast type stuff. On the Ren, when I did the same thing (same sound) I got some double triggers and it was not near as fluid sounding due to the lower sensitivity.
I also got to do a side-by-side comparison between them and I have to say that my experience was quite the opposite. They are both subtle enough for nuanced performance. The Maschine pads even felt a little too loose but that might have been because it was a shop floor model that had seen quite a bit of abuse.

Go figure. Like I said, to me the difference was night and day. It was far from subtle. Not sure where you're getting the "felt a little too loose" from either because that doesn't sound like Maschine pads at all to me. In fact, MPC pads are more likely to be described as feeling loose, and much squishier to touch which is why some people who come from MPCs complain about the Maschine pads feeling too stiff for them. Also, don't forget that NI has improved the feel and sensitivity of the pads from the original Maschine to the Mikro MKI and then again on the MKII models.

So the only Maschine you've touched is the shop floor model and also the one you did a side-by-side comparison with?


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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting PUSH?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:15 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:00 am
Posts: 941
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
My gear lust goes into over-drive when I look at it and read about it but that's to be expected. It doesn't really fit my work-flow but I could make it. I would rack up all my 3rd part synths and effects so that I could browse them. Hopefully the 8 knobs auto-map to the 8 macro knobs like on the APC40. That's actually the only thing I use my APC40 for anymore.
It's a beautiful piece of kit, that much I can't deny. The step sequencer would be an awesome work-flow for drums I think rather than drawing them in which is what I've always done. Also, I can't deny that I'm intrigued by the note modes and scale modes. It does seem like a whole new instrument in itself and that's mainly what I'm interested in. I play guitar and can "kinda" play keyboard so I think it would be easier and more fun to play on PUSH.

Like many others (I suspect) I'm on the fence between PUSH and MAschine. I'm getting some money soon so I'll defintely be getting one of the two. I LOVE Native Instruments stuff. I use Traktor when I play live w/ an S2, F1 and X1 and it's absolutely fantastic! Much better than using Ableton to play live. But I do all my production in Ableton.

Anyway, as of now I'm un-decided. I already have an APC40 and a Launchpad. Do I need PUSH? No. But all those colors are pulling me in. lol

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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting PUSH?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:34 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:02 pm
Posts: 761
Location: South of London
delicioso: really? This all sounds pretty contradictory to my own personal experience. Also just to clarify I compared the MPC Ren & Maschine mkii. I actually preferred the slightly more solid sturdy feeling Ren pads.

You're correct in your assumption that the shop floor was my side by side comparison of the hardware. I spent a good afternoon trying them out and chatting with the staff about workflow etc.

I also got some hand on time with Maschine belonging to a friend and immediately wanted to sell my mpd.

I can't see how else one would evaluate such things other than stealing the damn things :P

Again, I'll reiterate, to me the difference is so negligible that I would be happy with either hardware controller (not considering software).

is it possible Akai are back on the ball in terms of pad performance? That vid was encouraging no.. And that Jeremy Ellis one, if it gets his seal of approval then I'm halfway sold.

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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting PUSH?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:02 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:28 pm
Posts: 1322
panten wrote:
You're correct in your assumption that the shop floor was my side by side comparison of the hardware. I spent a good afternoon trying them out and chatting with the staff about workflow etc.

I also got some hand on time with Maschine belonging to a friend and immediately wanted to sell my mpd.

I can't see how else one would evaluate such things other than stealing the damn things :P

Or just test them side by side if your buddy has one, which is what I did with my MKII. Things like the "feel" of the pads are always going to be subjective. But there is definitely a difference in sensitivity and responsiveness between the two that you might not catch just trying out shop floor models. As I explained earlier, I did a rather extensive A/B test just to test the level of sensitivity. Ren's pads felt and responded pretty much like all other Akai pads I've used but Maschine's pads were way more sensitive, registering even the lightest of touches. I even turned up the sensitivity setting all the way up on both. No contest. But where you could really tell the difference was to try some expressive playing of identical synth patches on both.


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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting PUSH?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:17 am 

Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:13 pm
Posts: 348
Location: Brussels, Belgium
I wonder if it won't be an absolute seller's market for at least for a few months.

With the amount of Ableton users who'll probably want it, the demand will be huge and I doubt the production will be able to follow. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting PUSH?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:09 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:46 am
Posts: 1420
yur2die4 wrote:
He said MPC 'style'. As in 4x4 somewhat wide pads. Which all of those would fall into that same category.

Yes.

Quote:
I'm pretty sure that by "MPC style", he meant Akai pads, and not "pads with a 4x4 layout".


No. MPD, Korg padkontrol, Maschine, M-audio Trigger finger have same layout. I would have directly said AKAI if I were an akai fanboy. I don't think you can't understand the phrase in this article. "MPC-style pads"
http://www.musicradar.com/gear/tech/key ... kii-566748

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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting PUSH?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:29 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:46 am
Posts: 1420
panten wrote:
The Maschine pads even felt a little too loose but that might have been because it was a shop floor model that had seen quite a bit of abuse.

Maschine actually has loose pads.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce_XOylBCRE

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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting PUSH?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:41 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:29 pm
Posts: 118
I can't decide about Push which probably suggests it isn't for me. Ableton's videos and marketing get me in the mood for it but user videos to date have kind made me thing "what's the big deal about it?". I don't mean that in any insulting way to the guys who have made the effort to put videos up but I can't see past the fact that with a keyboard and Maschine I'd be better covered with an APC40. I don't doubt that those without keyboards or haven't a clue how to play one will absolutely love Push though. I'll be keeping an eye on things.


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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting PUSH?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:45 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:02 pm
Posts: 761
Location: South of London
delicioso wrote:
the "feel" of the pads are always going to be subjective.

Sure but I was speaking more about empirical analysis of the hardware in front of me. The shop was quite quiet that day and the staff member (purveyor of Maschine) had a lot of time for me and altered the sensitivity settings, like you described .
My drumming test was to get my nose right down to the pads and lightly use two fingers (index & middle) to see how much pressure was actually needed to trigger. I was actually pretty shocked/surprised at how responsive the MPC Ren pads were considering I'm used to MPD32 & Fat pads. I would liken your night & day analogy to the comparison between MPC Ren & MPD pads but definitely not between Ren & Maschine. I also tried the usual paradiddles, flams, weighted fills etc on both and they were both excellent. I couldn't fault either.

My next test was with Synth settings and I experienced no accidental double hits like you described with the Ren. It just didn't happen. I preferred slightly the Ren pads as they wouldn't trigger instantly upon contact. Think about how a pianist would play keys, or even how you touch type on a computer keyboard. You rest your fingers on the home keys and only when you press down do you get a sound. The Ren felt more natural in that respect, whereas the Maschine did not.

These are the less 'subjective' things I can mention about 'feel' of the pads.

This kind of discussion is always going to be partially subjective as the spectrum of playing style between each user can be pretty broad. I wonder if you were experiencing difficulties with the Ren pads because you own and are used to using a Maschine ( I presume you own one:)

Anyway this is all a bit off topic and only tenuously linked to the topic.

Did you watch that Amit playing on Push vid I posted? It bodes well for the performance aspect to the Push I think.

Pencilrocket: I don't have the same problems as that guy in the vid you posted. I come from a traditional drumming background and tend to lift my fingers right off the pads and use a bit of wrist action when drumming, but I feel his frustration.

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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting PUSH?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:52 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:24 pm
Posts: 32
Already pre-ordered Push waiting for arrival im stoked can't wait! Just came across this video nice mini performance with push

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm_7olkI ... Fkcv4cFc2S


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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting PUSH?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:11 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:39 pm
Posts: 263
I think option 2 (and the people voting for it) is a bit naively optimistic. Hardware doesn't tend to go down in price unless it's either a flop or the next version is about to be released.

Everyone waiting for it to go down in price before they buy it, are going to be waiting a LONG time.

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