live 9: speed and stability versus live 8

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
ionic
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live 9: speed and stability versus live 8

Post by ionic » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:12 am

so we have all heard about the great new features. however, this isn't enough for me to fork over the money for the upgrade just yet. has the speed and processing of Live increased since 8? i was thinking of turning this into the Live 9 Performance Test thread, but i think we should let Tarekith handle that one!

anyways, congrats to all that have it. hoping to hear good news!

[art]
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Re: live 9: speed and stability versus live 8

Post by [art] » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:19 am

im interested in this also, particularly if there might be any benefits to using 32bit // 64bit. And if there might use cases where 32 is better than 64

artpunk
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Re: live 9: speed and stability versus live 8

Post by artpunk » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:28 am

[art] wrote:im interested in this also, particularly if there might be any benefits to using 32bit // 64bit. And if there might use cases where 32 is better than 64
For my, admittedly simple workflow, I've found Live 9 to be comparable to 8 (at least in the beta, haven't had that much time to play with the release yet), even a little bit better, but I have no empirical evidence for that, just my general impressions.
The differences between 32 and 64-bit have been covered quite comprehensively by Ableton in the 'Help' section of their website:
https://www.ableton.com/en/articles/64bit-myths-facts/
:D

“... it was just to make an average listener go: ‘What the fuck is this?’ That’s a real inspiration for me and something that I will explore more on upcoming recordings.”
- Wally De Backer (Gotye) quoting Ween's intention behind making records

ionic
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Re: live 9: speed and stability versus live 8

Post by ionic » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:49 pm

nothing?

agent314
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Re: live 9: speed and stability versus live 8

Post by agent314 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:52 pm

It may be psychological/confirmation bias at work, but I find 9 slightly faster than 8 in terms of opening sets/devices/VSTs. Haven't done any tests or anything.

Beyond that, I have definitely experienced fewer crashes (and cleaner, quicker recoveries when they do happen) using 9 than with 8, esp. when using Max for Live patches. That could be because I'm using the official Max devices from Ableton though, which I imagine have had more testing and tweaking.

Can't speak for side-by-side performance comparisons, but I haven't run into any more processor limitations with 9 than I did with 8

Dean09
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Re: live 9: speed and stability versus live 8

Post by Dean09 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:53 pm

I am getting some intermittent crackling noise that I do not get with 8. I have a pretty new desktop win 7 PC. I have not chanegd the audio settings/buffer size. Curious if others are having that issue

ShelLuser
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Re: live 9: speed and stability versus live 8

Post by ShelLuser » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:06 pm

ionic wrote:so we have all heard about the great new features. however, this isn't enough for me to fork over the money for the upgrade just yet. has the speed and processing of Live increased since 8?
Yes, and no (my favourite comment ;-)).

In some cases the speed seems to have increased. I particularly notice whenever I'm using Max for Live (which I use a lot); the speed in which devices get loaded and the Max runtime gets started has definitely been enhanced.

Also the loading of projects works quite good. I have a rather heavy "Gadget project" (my all time favourite) which contains a lot of samples, outtakes, and such from the cartoon. Loading this project is a lot faster under 9 than it is under 8. I'm not merely talking loading; but also processing.

For example; after I loaded the project the session view grid is (obviously) flooding with clips. With 8 it would take a while for these clips to get coloured (I used specific colours to separate between clips; character separation, style separation, etc.).

While you can still see the clips getting "coloured" its much faster.

And also where workflow comes into play IMO.

Although there's still much to get used to, I've come to like the "samples" category quite much. For example; I need a "Brain related" sample. It has the name of the dog in it, but what sample exactly? A Gadget comment, Penny comment or perhaps even Quimby?

In 8 I simply had to go over the liveset again (the clips). One track with 'penny' outtakes, one with 'gadget takes', etc.

In 9 I simply go to the samples category, search for "brain" and presto; they all show up. Of course I also get a lot of unrelated "Brainchild" stuff, but hopefully you get my point.

And while you could also do this in 8 somewhat (using the 'current project' browser) it would be more tedious since you first had to collapse several folders (samples\processed\crop).

Another thing which has surprised me very positively are some of the interface changes on the sound effects. You know; the compressor now graphically showing what it does; the Gate effect also showing a graphical representation of your score...

That was bound to be a resource hog IMO, and one early point of criticism from me.

I haven't seen it all, I still need to test with some heavier projects from a few friends of mine, but first week impressions are very positive.

I especially stand corrected on the Gate effect because not only can't I notice any increase in resource usage; the change actually makes a whole lot more sense than I thought at first. It actually makes the Gate effect much more useful. For me it really unlocked some potential I didn't think was possible.

Simply by making it easier for me to use, I like that.

Another aspect of "faster workflow" is the new user library. I like it, takes getting used to but works pretty well so far. Of course; sometimes I don't like not seeing my own work besides the 'system' presets (when I simply want to skim everything) but that's where the new browser (sounds & drums) comes into play.

But I haven't had enough hands on experience to comment on that one already.

Oh; and what I also consider to be a major (speed) enhancement where workflow comes to play is the package category. That one is great IMO; I KNOW that Latin Percussion (one of my favourites) has this cool "Quinto" sample.

In the old days I had to go to the Library, and then: Samples -> Waveforms -> Latin Percussion -> Several 'Quinto' folders.

In the new setup I go to "Packs -> Latin Percussion -> Samples -> Combined -> Quinto* (=sample files)", and I'm there.

Lets see, what's more...

Sometimes the browser does get in my face; whenever I click 'sounds' or 'drums' by accident it can take a while before it stops "indexing" (I suppose). That can be annoying because then I already clicked the place I needed (instruments for example) and still have to wait for Live to finish whatever its doing. So it then first shows "sounds" or "drums", then quickly moves to the new location.

Starting and stopping seems to be about the same, though sometimes the new browser stalls on me right after 9 has started. Sometimes that's annoying. But I also seem to notice less tax on Asio4All. Not sure here mind you; but it seems as if they also enhanced the overall delay; iirc the buffer settings in Asio4All work much tighter than they do in 8.

Ah yes, almost forgot one last example...

My Sonica Taiko drumkits. These are HUGE and take quite some time to load. Also really manage to tax the system.

It does seem as if Live 8 managed to buffer these samples faster than 9. After I loaded the kit 9 shows "buffering samples" and it takes quite some time to complete. From what I remember 8 used to be a lot faster there.

And that's a bit annoying because if its building its buffer I sometimes get a little stutter and clicks during play. That's not how it should be. That becomes clear with the "Full acoustic" kit while hitting OD Hit-L (C1) and OD Flam multi (E1).

Of course; once the buffer is ready all is well again.

So apart from some annoyances here and there, I'm pretty pleased with Live 9 in general. The speed seems to have improved here and there and the workflow also seems to be enhanced.

Hope this can give some insights as well.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

agent314
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Re: live 9: speed and stability versus live 8

Post by agent314 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:24 pm

I am getting some intermittent crackling noise that I do not get with 8. I have a pretty new desktop win 7 PC. I have not chanegd the audio settings/buffer size. Curious if others are having that issue
I also started getting this when using my interface's ASIO drivers. Goes away when I change to ASIO4ALL

tom.luft
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Re: live 9: speed and stability versus live 8

Post by tom.luft » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:49 pm

Dean09 wrote:I am getting some intermittent crackling noise that I do not get with 8. I have a pretty new desktop win 7 PC. I have not chanegd the audio settings/buffer size. Curious if others are having that issue
Yeah me too. Reminds me of Live's darkest hours. I also get usage percentages > 200% again; heavy crackling and distortion included.
When I open the same project with Live 8 there's not a single glitch and usage < 30%.
Live 9.1.7 64bit, NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Addictive Drums 2
Scarlett 18i8
M-Audio Keystation 61es, Launchpad, Behringer BCF2000
AMD Phenom II X6, 8 GB RAM, Win 8.1 Pro 64bit
http://tomluft.at

ian_halsall
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Re: live 9: speed and stability versus live 8

Post by ian_halsall » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:06 pm

it's slower when mixing down - significantly slower for me - although I am comparing the 64 bit Live 9 with 32 bit Live 8

Not a deal breaker - just a data point

golemus
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Re: live 9: speed and stability versus live 8

Post by golemus » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:12 am

ionic wrote:so we have all heard about the great new features. however, this isn't enough for me to fork over the money for the upgrade just yet. has the speed and processing of Live increased since 8? i was thinking of turning this into the Live 9 Performance Test thread, but i think we should let Tarekith handle that one!

anyways, congrats to all that have it. hoping to hear good news!
I am also very interested about this topic.



But I think it is important for people to write when they reply to this topic that:

"which OS are you using (win7-64, osx snow leopard, win8-64, win7-32, winXP, osx lion, etc..etc.."

"are you using 32bit or 64bit ableton live"

"are you using VST plugins"

"if you use 64bit live are you using 32bit plugins with bridging"




As I have understood, live9-win32, live9-win64, live9-osx32 and live9-osx64 are essentially different programs and each of them might be plagued by different bugs or problems.

With these questions we can identify that which circumstances are stabile and which have perhaps some problems. I suggest that op (ionic) add these questions to the first message of the thread.

3dot...
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Re: live 9: speed and stability versus live 8

Post by 3dot... » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:39 am

tom.luft wrote:
Dean09 wrote:I am getting some intermittent crackling noise that I do not get with 8. I have a pretty new desktop win 7 PC. I have not chanegd the audio settings/buffer size. Curious if others are having that issue
Yeah me too. Reminds me of Live's darkest hours. I also get usage percentages > 200% again; heavy crackling and distortion included.
When I open the same project with Live 8 there's not a single glitch and usage < 30%.
using any 3rd party in this project?
Image

3dot...
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Re: live 9: speed and stability versus live 8

Post by 3dot... » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:03 am

my opinion is that L9 is quicker all around than L8..
you can try the 30-day demo and get an impression/comparison yourself..

somehow L9 isn't so exciting to me.. but I see it as a step in the right direction. so I eventually decided to get with the program (update)
I'm glad Ableton decided to rapidly release a new beta.. and hope that they get the major issues fixed quickly
I've been here since V3.. and Live has come a long way since then..

congratulations to the Ableton team for the release..
in the end.. with all the bs out of the way.. you guys rock ..
10x
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3dot...
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Re: live 9: speed and stability versus live 8

Post by 3dot... » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:05 am

ian_halsall wrote:it's slower when mixing down - significantly slower for me
when processing? rendering?
or when editing?
is it a workflow issue that makes it slower?
Image

tom.luft
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Re: live 9: speed and stability versus live 8

Post by tom.luft » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:54 am

3dot... wrote:using any 3rd party in this project?
Yes. But they didn't change. Live did. And since I somewhat naively trusted and ignored the compatibility warning I did overwrite the original project. No more opening in Live 8...
So i narrowed the problem and it seems to be connected with me playing the set without all samples (especially the ones of Komplete) being loaded. This was never an issue in Live 8 - but now I get this:
Image
Well this and random distortion and crackles after loading - even when only playing one clip :roll:
3dot... wrote:somehow L9 isn't so exciting to me..
For me the best new feature (which they didn't promote - maybe they were ashamed they didn't implement it with a free 8 update?) is instant MIDI refresh.
When I forgot to plugin a device or when a usb cable became loose in Live 8 it was a real desaster. Live 9 seems to permanently scan for new devices - they get registered into Live a second after connecting.
Live 9.1.7 64bit, NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Addictive Drums 2
Scarlett 18i8
M-Audio Keystation 61es, Launchpad, Behringer BCF2000
AMD Phenom II X6, 8 GB RAM, Win 8.1 Pro 64bit
http://tomluft.at

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