Does Live 9 support multiple VSTi folders yet?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
ezelkow1
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Re: Does Live 9 support multiple VSTi folders yet?

Post by ezelkow1 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:50 pm

yea, thats why you just use a directory of shortcuts/symlinks and then you can let the installers put them where they like and not worry about having broken plugins or having to uninstall/reinstall to get things right. You just point the shortcut to the vst and your done, whenever you update it, it gets updated automatically

Its also handy in cases like u-he products where they used to install the 32 and 64 in the same location and not give you a choice (which has changed recently), so then that wouldnt matter either. So in most cases I have a vstplugins dir in "program files (x86)" for 32bit, and another in non-x86 for 64bit since that seems to be the preferred location of many installers. Then using shortcuts I can organize them anyway I want and not just have a flat listing of vst's or have them organized by company/name/whatever the installer chooses, you can reorganize your shortcuts anyway you want, i.e.
effects/delays/
/compressors/
/modfx/
etc

and dont have to meticulously install everything. Plus it lets you shuffle them around easily if you find you use some more often than others, like i have a synths/favorites directory that occasionally changes as I shuffle around my favorites but then they are all easily accesible.

kitekrazy
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Re: Does Live 9 support multiple VSTi folders yet?

Post by kitekrazy » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:49 am

Rosko wrote:Why do you need more than one vst folder in a daw?

Edit just re-read the op.

I'm going to be switching to 64 bit, so i guess i will come across this problem soon, as things stand i have setup a second 64bit folder & assumed i would point live to that? I assumed then any bridged 32 bit plugs would be put into that 64bit vst folder as well.
I find it more convenient to keep 32 and 64 VSTs separated. Some apps like Sony Soundforge are still 32 bit. I've also had to use 32 bit versions of DAW counterparts when working with QT video.

The only advantage to 64 bit is more memory access.

ark
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Re: Does Live 9 support multiple VSTi folders yet?

Post by ark » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:40 pm

ezelkow1 wrote:just wondering, what does that buy you over using shortcuts?
Because if you put a shortcut in a VST folder, I think you will find that Live does not follow the shortcut, and does not include among the VSTs that it offers to its users the VSTs in the folders to which the shortcut refers.

More generally, a shortcut is an object in its own right, and it is up to each individual,application how to deal with the shortcut. A junction link, on the other hand, is completely transparent; individual applications do not even know that they exist.

Donnie
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Re: Does Live 9 support multiple VSTi folders yet?

Post by Donnie » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:50 pm

ark wrote:
ezelkow1 wrote:just wondering, what does that buy you over using shortcuts?
Because if you put a shortcut in a VST folder, I think you will find that Live does not follow the shortcut, and does not include among the VSTs that it offers to its users the VSTs in the folders to which the shortcut refers.

More generally, a shortcut is an object in its own right, and it is up to each individual,application how to deal with the shortcut. A junction link, on the other hand, is completely transparent; individual applications do not even know that they exist.
Incorrect. Shortcuts work perfectly for this. Live doesn't care that its a shortcut, as long as the shortcut points to the .dll it's all the same to Live ;)

ark
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Re: Does Live 9 support multiple VSTi folders yet?

Post by ark » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:07 pm

Donnie wrote:Incorrect. Shortcuts work perfectly for this. Live doesn't care that its a shortcut, as long as the shortcut points to the .dll it's all the same to Live ;)
I am talking about shortcuts that point to other folders, not shortcuts that point to individual DLLs.

ezelkow1
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Re: Does Live 9 support multiple VSTi folders yet?

Post by ezelkow1 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:23 pm

Ahh, see thats why I use a shortcut for each individual dll. That way I can organize them how I please whenever I want. Just linking to an entire directory doesnt seem of much use since then you still end up with the same cluttered mess as just pointing ableton to a regular dir full of vst's, except now you can have even more jumbled together from different locations transparently

Donnie
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Re: Does Live 9 support multiple VSTi folders yet?

Post by Donnie » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:32 pm

ark wrote:
Donnie wrote:Incorrect. Shortcuts work perfectly for this. Live doesn't care that its a shortcut, as long as the shortcut points to the .dll it's all the same to Live ;)
I am talking about shortcuts that point to other folders, not shortcuts that point to individual DLLs.
Ahh I see. Yeah, it doesn't work that way. I never even tried shortcutting to a VST folder as that defeats the purpose of using shortcuts to organize VSTs.

ark
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Re: Does Live 9 support multiple VSTi folders yet?

Post by ark » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:57 pm

Donnie wrote:Ahh I see. Yeah, it doesn't work that way. I never even tried shortcutting to a VST folder as that defeats the purpose of using shortcuts to organize VSTs.
Not at all. Suppose I have VSTs from three different vendors. I might want to put all the VSTs from each vendor into a single folder and not organize them further.

ChiefNugget
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Re: Does Live 9 support multiple VSTi folders yet?

Post by ChiefNugget » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:12 pm

This is the correct answer...

http://www.familiekraft.de/PluginManager/


Found this app when trying to sort 32, 64, jbridged, automapped etc plugins. It's great. Need to toss a few $ this devs way. You just install VSTs to your normal default 32 and 64 bit folders, run automap (if applicable), then follow the instructions to set up PluginManager.

When finished, you will have a nicely organized set of VSTs that is consistent across hosts whether 32 or 64 bit. It will prioritize native 64 bit over jbridge, then jbridge over 32-bit depending on your VST host setup. No need for you to even run the jbridge app. PluginManager automatically jbridges where needed (you still need to buy and install jbridge, of course).
I need a baby sit my boys and work the day job plug-in.

ChiefNugget
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Re: Does Live 9 support multiple VSTi folders yet?

Post by ChiefNugget » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:17 pm

btw, i had been using the folder full of shortcuts method before PluginManager. The shortcuts method is great if dealing with just a single host and maybe all 32-bit plugs (like Live 8 before 64 bit). It starts to be a headache when you need to deal with plugins that are both jbridged AND automapped, not to mention jbridge vs native 64-bit. PluginManager has handled this situation very well for me.
I need a baby sit my boys and work the day job plug-in.

Rosko
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Re: Does Live 9 support multiple VSTi folders yet?

Post by Rosko » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:25 pm

yeah i bridge & automap & can see problems with suggested shortcuts. I just don't see the point or need to use shortcut anyway, my vst folder is organised how i want i simply move the .dll to a different place if i can't install to a needed sub folder. easy.

ark
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Re: Does Live 9 support multiple VSTi folders yet?

Post by ark » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:52 pm

Rosko wrote:yeah i bridge & automap & can see problems with suggested shortcuts. I just don't see the point or need to use shortcut anyway, my vst folder is organised how i want i simply move the .dll to a different place if i can't install to a needed sub folder. easy.
No it's not easy. Some DLLs won't work if you move them. Others sometimes get updated, and the updates insist on installing in the original location. If you decide you want to uninstall one, the uninstall might fail becuase it's no longer found where the uninstaller expects it.

In general, moving executable files after you've installed them is asking for trouble.

H20nly
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Re: Does Live 9 support multiple VSTi folders yet?

Post by H20nly » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:47 pm

ark wrote:In general, moving executable files after you've installed them is asking for trouble.
this is true.

it will work sometimes, but not always. when it does not, the resulting headache is real.

JeffreyCJohnson
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Re: Does Live 9 support multiple VSTi folders yet?

Post by JeffreyCJohnson » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:43 pm

ark wrote:On Windows, there's an easy solution to this problem: Install this free application.

What it does is lets you create junction links, which are like shortcuts but completely transparent. So what you do is create a single VST folder that contains nothing but junction links, then put into that folder a link to all of your "real" VST folders, and you're done.
Hey, thank you so much for the link to Junction Link Magic! I'm returning to windows after a blissful decade of mac's and have been wondering, "Where is the 21st century counterpart to SUBST?" I'm porting + upgrading from Live 8.4 on Snow Leopard to Live 9 64-bit Windows 7 and the utility is going to be a Live Saver.

Jeff

bosonHavoc
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Re: Does Live 9 support multiple VSTi folders yet?

Post by bosonHavoc » Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:30 am

from my experience it is not a good idea to store the sample folders in the same folder as the VST .DLL
I have my battery and iris samples stored in another folder on my drive and only the actual plugs installed in the VST folder.

VST's are a bit tricky and you really have to pay attention when you install them on a PC.
they always want to go into the steinberg folder.
some VST's have the DLL the program and the samples too
the main one to watch is where the DLL wants to go
which would be the one that wants to install into the steinberg folder
and this will be the one that will have a 32 bit and 64 bit version too.
installing VST's is one of the few times a pay attention and read rather then just hitting ok ok ok

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