Scales in Live 9

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
crumhorn
Posts: 2503
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:04 pm

Re: Scales in Live 9

Post by crumhorn » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:26 am

pablorotter wrote:live please take away your scale plug ins.

djs are fronting as musicians with no skill no understanding of chord movements.

Tongue in cheek for sure but If you want to make music there are charts of what chord

naturally goes to a selection of other chords. Learn these patterns and work on simple melodies

and basslines. Be a DJ or a composer, you can't half ass either skillset.
+ 1
For me it all went wrong when they put valves on wind instruments and organized keyboards into white and black notes.
Don't even get me started on frets.
"The banjo is the perfect instrument for the antisocial."

(Allow me to plug my guitar scale visualiser thingy - www.fretlearner.com)

julienb
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Re: Scales in Live 9

Post by julienb » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:44 am

just don't use them.
that would be nicer to just do that.

Zac Kyoti
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:15 am

Re: Scales in Live 9

Post by Zac Kyoti » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:19 am

Thanks Julien for the scale list. FYI - If anyone's interested in the Push scale mode and you use Ableton and a Maschine/16 pad controller, maybe you'd like to beta test a Push emulation rack I built. Think Stray's launchpad script but made with racks rather than python. I think I nailed the basic Push scale functionality, plus some extras, at least for 16 pad controllers. I'm still busy plugging in all the scales (unfortunately I need to hand modify each to work in the rack framework), but it works a charm. To the dude with the bad attitude, read the following and consider how devices like scale can be used to enhance musical understanding and even build more playable instruments - not the opposite.

How it's like Push:
- Choose any scale
- Transpose up the circle of fifths, down the circle of fourths
- Scales mapped in steps along horizontal axis, diatonic fourths on the vertical axis. This means scale runs are three in a row, up a row, another three in a row, etc. Super easy to play complex lines and chords, no "wrong" notes, etc.
- Really, really fun to jam on.

Stuff I'm not sure is in Push, since I haven't yet played one:
- Free chromatic transpose.
- move through octaves with a knob
- velocity sensitivity with a knob
- gate/sustain length with a knob

How it's not like Push:
- Modes have been separated from scales, so ANY scale can be played starting at any step of the scale. Ie selecting "locrian" doesn't just map everything starting on the 7th note of a major scale at the base note you selected. Instead, it maintains the intervals of your selected scale, while transposing the base note. So if you had harmonic minor selected, then selected the "locrian" chain, the harmonic minor intervals are preserved but the scale starts on the 7th note relative to your selected tonic. Stock Ableton modes are all relative to a major scale.
- Choosing a mode actually remaps the pads so the lowest note (pad 1) is the actual pitch of the note the mode starts on. Hard to explain, but in Push, choosing a mode does not change the base note, so it loses it's relationship to the key you selected. My method keeps you in the right key signature at all times, granting you're using a scale type that fits the key.
- Toggle between Maj/min relative keysigs. The tonic transposes accordingly.
- No restructuring the pads like Push can do to be 4 steps (horizontal) and 5ths (vertical). I may build this in later though.
- No "pad off" mode (where scale steps are lit and out of scale notes are blacked out). Scale lock in vertical diatonic fourths is always on, but of course you can turn the rack off and go chromatic at any time.
- No led feedback showing octaves or identical notes. But since it's an isomorphic layout, you learn where the octaves are really quickly.
- No key/scale display on the hardware like Push, but I've set the rack up in such a way that key, scale and mode is always visible on-screen (using the Auto function).

Everything mapped to 8 knobs, no buttons. It's not quite done, but should be soon, and I'm happy to share with anyone who'd get some use out of the rack. :)

Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:15 pm

Re: Scales in Live 9

Post by » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:29 pm

Hi Julien or anyone else who can help me.

I've been trying to use the consts.py file to add new scales to Push. Specifically, I want to add one without any scale degrees because I find the lights distracting in chromatic mode and would prefer to learn chords by shape and position.

However, when using this file, I can't even seem to get Ableton to load it even when entirely unmodified. I've tried removing the original .pyc file and letting Live recompile it from the .py, but the result is always the same. Occasionally, I get an error message but most of the time Push just stays dead, like Live hasn't even loaded.

Any thoughts? Has anyone managed to use the decompiled consts.py file successfully?

I'm on 9.0.3 if that matters, although I think I tried on 9.0.2 as well.

(Fortunately now I'm in the habit of backing up the original .pyc - the first time I didn't realise that it would get recompiled and overwritten and had to reinstall Live to recover a working copy of the file. I mention this just to aid anyone who might be thinking of trying similar).

CancerRidden
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:50 am

Re: Scales in Live 9

Post by CancerRidden » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:21 am

aputy:

I feel the same way when people blast mainstream artists like Justin Bieber, Britney Spears, or whoever the hot artist is at the moment, calling their music trash, shitty, etc

As if their music own is a gift from god.... I hate that type of pride. It's completely the antithesis of what art and creative arts (including music obviously) should be.

darkenedsoul
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Re: Scales in Live 9

Post by darkenedsoul » Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:14 pm

ambientidm wrote:the scale plugins are very powerful if you know what you are doing
make a rack in this order pitch + chord+ note length+arp+scale
what every adjustments you make before the scale will still be in key
you can then adjust your midi clip to sequence through modes and many other unique things
Ok so now where's the rack to share! Unless someone has it already posted in the The Rack thread over in the other forum?

Mike
http://www.darkenedsoul.net - main website
Ableton Live 8.x/9.x : NI Komplete 8 : Home built 4690K 16GB 500GB SSD, 1TB 7200, 2x2TB.

kanelbulletaxen
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:08 pm

Re: Scales in Live 9

Post by kanelbulletaxen » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:18 pm

I love this site when looking for chords and scales: http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/piano/

Can someone point me to where I could be able to learn how to load these into push?

darkenedsoul
Posts: 1223
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:21 pm
Location: Massachusetts, USA
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Re: Scales in Live 9

Post by darkenedsoul » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:58 pm

kanelbulletaxen wrote:I love this site when looking for chords and scales: http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/piano/

Can someone point me to where I could be able to learn how to load these into push?
Hi,

I don't think you'd be able to load anything from looknohands as I thought it was just piano/guitar chords and scales for learning purposes. I don't know if there are any MIDI files to accompany the information. I'd suggest looking in the Push forum for one and wait and see if someone comes up with a rack. I know there was another thread somewhere where someone posted an als file that shows all chords and maybe even scales. I just forget where I came across it. Possibly in the Racks thread.

Mike
http://www.darkenedsoul.net - main website
Ableton Live 8.x/9.x : NI Komplete 8 : Home built 4690K 16GB 500GB SSD, 1TB 7200, 2x2TB.

darkenedsoul
Posts: 1223
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:21 pm
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Contact:

Re: Scales in Live 9

Post by darkenedsoul » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:22 pm

kanelbulletaxen wrote:I love this site when looking for chords and scales: http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/piano/

Can someone point me to where I could be able to learn how to load these into push?
Go back to the first page and look at the I think second post down where someone dug into the python script/code and breaks things out for the Push.

Mike
http://www.darkenedsoul.net - main website
Ableton Live 8.x/9.x : NI Komplete 8 : Home built 4690K 16GB 500GB SSD, 1TB 7200, 2x2TB.

Jed
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:32 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Scales in Live 9

Post by Jed » Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:12 pm

Zac Kyoti wrote:Thanks Julien for the scale list. FYI - If anyone's interested in the Push scale mode and you use Ableton and a Maschine/16 pad controller, maybe you'd like to beta test a Push emulation rack I built. Think Stray's launchpad script but made with racks rather than python. I think I nailed the basic Push scale functionality, plus some extras, at least for 16 pad controllers. I'm still busy plugging in all the scales (unfortunately I need to hand modify each to work in the rack framework), but it works a charm. To the dude with the bad attitude, read the following and consider how devices like scale can be used to enhance musical understanding and even build more playable instruments - not the opposite.

How it's like Push:
- Choose any scale
- Transpose up the circle of fifths, down the circle of fourths
- Scales mapped in steps along horizontal axis, diatonic fourths on the vertical axis. This means scale runs are three in a row, up a row, another three in a row, etc. Super easy to play complex lines and chords, no "wrong" notes, etc.
- Really, really fun to jam on.

Stuff I'm not sure is in Push, since I haven't yet played one:
- Free chromatic transpose.
- move through octaves with a knob
- velocity sensitivity with a knob
- gate/sustain length with a knob

How it's not like Push:
- Modes have been separated from scales, so ANY scale can be played starting at any step of the scale. Ie selecting "locrian" doesn't just map everything starting on the 7th note of a major scale at the base note you selected. Instead, it maintains the intervals of your selected scale, while transposing the base note. So if you had harmonic minor selected, then selected the "locrian" chain, the harmonic minor intervals are preserved but the scale starts on the 7th note relative to your selected tonic. Stock Ableton modes are all relative to a major scale.
- Choosing a mode actually remaps the pads so the lowest note (pad 1) is the actual pitch of the note the mode starts on. Hard to explain, but in Push, choosing a mode does not change the base note, so it loses it's relationship to the key you selected. My method keeps you in the right key signature at all times, granting you're using a scale type that fits the key.
- Toggle between Maj/min relative keysigs. The tonic transposes accordingly.
- No restructuring the pads like Push can do to be 4 steps (horizontal) and 5ths (vertical). I may build this in later though.
- No "pad off" mode (where scale steps are lit and out of scale notes are blacked out). Scale lock in vertical diatonic fourths is always on, but of course you can turn the rack off and go chromatic at any time.
- No led feedback showing octaves or identical notes. But since it's an isomorphic layout, you learn where the octaves are really quickly.
- No key/scale display on the hardware like Push, but I've set the rack up in such a way that key, scale and mode is always visible on-screen (using the Auto function).

Everything mapped to 8 knobs, no buttons. It's not quite done, but should be soon, and I'm happy to share with anyone who'd get some use out of the rack. :)
Hi Zac - sent you a PM

Cheers
Jed

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