Why is Ableton Live's transient detection so bad?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
digivitis
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Why is Ableton Live's transient detection so bad?

Post by digivitis » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:54 pm

Why is Ableton Live's transient detection so bad? Programs like ReCycle have been able to do this for over a decade, with great precision.

Ableton's auto-warp:
Image

ReCycle's auto-warp:
Image

pencilrocket
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Re: Why is Ableton Live's transient detection so bad?

Post by pencilrocket » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:03 am

mmm maybe PH coded harder?
Image

chelemasty
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Re: Why is Ableton Live's transient detection so bad?

Post by chelemasty » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:27 am

pencilrocket wrote:mmm maybe PH coded harder?

LOL ^^^ THIS!!! maybe... :D
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leisuremuffin
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Re: Why is Ableton Live's transient detection so bad?

Post by leisuremuffin » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:35 am

looks like it detected the transient just fine, see the marker where the transient starts? why live decided to put the one where it does in your picture is another question. auto warp seems pretty unreliable, to the point where i rarely even try to use it.
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

3osc
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Re: Why is Ableton Live's transient detection so bad?

Post by 3osc » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:37 am

^^^ beat me to it!


It's interesting that there's a pseudo-warp marker in the right place, but that's not where it's warping from. So, the transient was properly detected, but the warping is off. Setting somewhere?

digivitis
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Re: Why is Ableton Live's transient detection so bad?

Post by digivitis » Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:17 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:looks like it detected the transient just fine, see the marker where the transient starts? why live decided to put the one where it does in your picture is another question. auto warp seems pretty unreliable, to the point where i rarely even try to use it.
Good point - why on earth would Live select that point as the start of the one-count? I've used other programs, and they usually accomplish both tasks (transient detection and marker position) quite reliably.

massenmedium
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Re: Why is Ableton Live's transient detection so bad?

Post by massenmedium » Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:09 pm

Not a full answer but they are different cases aren't they.

That is to say that Recycle isn't concerned with *where* in the bar the transients are supposed to be, just that they are there. It's a much simpler thing it needs to do.

I never use auto-warp though, I can usually do it quick enough by hand in chunks of 32 bars or so. Bosh bosh bosh. ;-)

LithiuMind
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Re: Why is Ableton Live's transient detection so bad?

Post by LithiuMind » Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:13 pm

THIS! I have always wondered this too... I always just set 1.1.1 manually and then try to warp at the original BPM to save myself the hassle of having to correct the whole way through.

But why would Ableton's engine mark the transient correctly and then put 1.1.1 50-200 samples off? Bizarre.

Oh great Abes, please chime in!

H20nly
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Re: Why is Ableton Live's transient detection so bad?

Post by H20nly » Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:18 pm

*bookmark*


:?:

massenmedium
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Re: Why is Ableton Live's transient detection so bad?

Post by massenmedium » Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:19 pm

LithiuMind wrote:THIS! I have always wondered this too... I always just set 1.1.1 manually and then try to warp at the original BPM to save myself the hassle of having to correct the whole way through.
Yep, that's a great way to do it. Also once you've added a second marker you can see what's usually a more accurate BPM and it's useful to whack a marker in right at the end at that tempo to minimize the need to adjust even more, I find.

But yes none of this answers the question.

panten
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Re: Why is Ableton Live's transient detection so bad?

Post by panten » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:39 pm

I'd really like to know some answers to this also. I started a post in the feature wish list section hoping for more control over transient detection.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=190098

If any of you have ever used Geist Sampler it has a transient threshold knob which gives you more initial control in real-time to fine tune what it will catch. Would be pretty useful if Abes worked on this area of Live a bit more, especially with Push just over the horizon.

Pettro
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Re: Why is Ableton Live's transient detection so bad?

Post by Pettro » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:56 pm

I´d like to see Ableton´s reply as well.

ark
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Re: Why is Ableton Live's transient detection so bad?

Post by ark » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:38 pm

Maybe it thought the two transients close together were a flam, in which case it would make sense to put 1.1.1 on the louder of the two.

proaudio
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Re: Why is Ableton Live's transient detection so bad?

Post by proaudio » Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:16 pm

Why wont Ableton implement some sort of control over transient detection process?
More accurate, less accurate kind of basic control.
All major DAWs have it and it definitely helps a lot. :?: :oops:

H20nly
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Re: Why is Ableton Live's transient detection so bad?

Post by H20nly » Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:29 pm

no better in 9.1?

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