Maschine vs. MPC Studio

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
v00d00ppl
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Re: Maschine vs. MPC Studio

Post by v00d00ppl » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:48 pm

3dot have you ever owned an MPC?
SSL X Desk / Apollo Twin Solo / Sherman Restyler / Ensoniq EPS Classic / Analog Keys / Handsome Audio Zulu

3dot...
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Re: Maschine vs. MPC Studio

Post by 3dot... » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:53 am

v00d00ppl wrote:3dot have you ever owned an MPC?
yes (well sort of) a MPC1000 when they came out...
currently have a MaschinemkII and love it.
would you say the MPC Studio would match up?
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Re: Maschine vs. MPC Studio

Post by 3dot... » Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:15 am

humnumb wrote: There are many other differences (Maschine is very stable while Ren/Studio is apparently a bug/crash fest even after the new 1.3.1 update which only introduced more bugs) of course but I'd say that's a pretty major one.
yeah.. NI is better known as a software developer...
I thought Akai would come out with a flimsy software.. and you confirm this..
but I'm still curious about the differences (when the software works)
can somone elaborate on that???
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JaysonJoyce
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Re: Maschine vs. MPC Studio

Post by JaysonJoyce » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:14 pm

I just wanted to give an objective view of MPC Studio Vs. Maschine debate.

First, to qualify- I have owned and used Maschine and the Mikro with the lastest version of software. I also owned an MPC Studio with Version 1 software that I returned because the software was so buggy. I just purchased a New MPC Studio because the software was updated to 1.3

The new MPC version 1.3 software has been rock solid. It used to crash every 15 minutes because of the way plugins used memory but now each plugin is buffered separately. They also added manual chopping and changed the icons to make more sense for the quicker workflow. Which brings me to why I prefer the MPC over Maschine.

For the way I work, the MPC is at least 2 to 3x faster to get ideas down that are usable. I think that's for a couple reasons #1) The mixer features are much more powerful on the MPC. You could pretty much finish a complete mastered song in the MPC ( I export the stems to master but I don't have to) in Maschine you need to use it as a plugin to really get a good idea of your final sound/mix. As many have said before, Maschine needs more finishing features. #2) Maschine, like most NI Software, adds a lot of complexity with updates and software. Things like colored cells are nice for marketing but in actual workflow, I only need the green, red & yellow colors of the MPC. For example-in the marketing NI shows different colored Kicks, Snares, etc in a loop and you can see all of them at one time on the Maschine. In the real world, musicians/producers would use 1 track for each so you have more control of the sounds and then use busses/grouping to mix the loop. I am only looking at the colors for velocity or available pads or something basic and I don't need the rainbow to do that.

I don't know what bugs one of the posters mentioned but I haven't seen one bug in 1.3 and Akai updates the MPC software faster than NI does. At this rate they will get to 2.0 quick than NI will.

My advice is to really try and find something that matches your individual workflow. There are a lot of good loop based production software solutions out there. Try them all, but pick one. Geist is good, the Motu software is good, FL studio is good, etc.

I prefer MPC Studio and will probably get a Renaissance as well to replace my soundcard. The important thing is don't pay so much attention to single biased posts. If everyone says the software is bad like MPC Version 1 then its probably true but when everyone says 1.3 is better then its probably true as well

humnumb
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Re: Maschine vs. MPC Studio

Post by humnumb » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:41 pm

Nice first post, JaysonJoyce. :mrgreen:
JaysonJoyce wrote:The new MPC version 1.3 software has been rock solid. It used to crash every 15 minutes because of the way plugins used memory but now each plugin is buffered separately.
The new MPC version 1.3 software is anything but rock solid. A quick glance at the MPC forums reveals that there is an ongoing 16 page thread called 'MPC Renaissance and MPC Studio v1.3 & 1.31 Bug Reports' that reveals countless bugs that still haven't been fixed. Here's a few recent gems from that thread:
es-k wrote:i know this been mentioned, but juuuust incase it isnt a priority - i've lost 3 beats in the past two days from pressing the undo button while a beat is playing or pressing control + z on keyboard
pspsounds wrote:In Program Mix when I select an effect in a bank greater than A the mixer jumps back to bank A.
krissserz wrote:Problem: Seq Edit / Effects button on hardware suddenly stopped working.
labcoats wrote:The workaround is to limit ourselves and basically dont use Next Seq unless the entire track has been written using one sequence and every single angle, potential variation you may want later (during song arrangements) is covered in that one sequence. . Even then the problem is still there. That's not a workaround. The issue has to be brought to the attention Akai.
JaysonJoyce wrote:#1) The mixer features are much more powerful on the MPC.
No, they really aren't. There is a reason why there is a 9 page thread in the MPC forums called 'The mixer on the Ren sucks' where Ren users are complaining that the mixer should work like it does on Maschine:
DJ Hellfire wrote:I have complained about this several times. It's a terrible design. The problem is any time you put a plugin on an actual pad, that pad is forced to route out a submix. Akai says it's impossible to route out of the track mixer when using a pad insert. Only way to "fix" it is to remove your pad insert, turn off the insert, and reroute it to the track mixer and use track inserts instead! But now you have to deal with duplicate inserts when you copy sequences.
DJ Hellfire wrote:And it is easier to get an accurate mix in Maschine than the Ren because of the gain structure. It may be quicker to move volumes and pans around in the Ren, but getting an accurate gain is almost impossible without know where your unity is. It's possible in the Ren, but you'd have to rely on one of your 3rd party plugins to show you proper mixer metering, like a limiter, or compressor, or even an EQ. Nothing you just said changes the fact that inserting plugins on pads bypasses Ren's track metering!

Also, the headroom issue. Maschine gives you +10dB of gain headroom to push levels. Ren gives you 0! With that headroom, you can easily push up lower volume sounds instead of having to lower the volume on every other track. And Ren doesn't allow you to group and move all faders at once like actual DAW's do. Neither does Maschine, but it at least has the extra headroom to help avoid having to do this!
JaysonJoyce wrote:You could pretty much finish a complete mastered song in the MPC
You can finish a complete mastered song in Maschine.
JaysonJoyce wrote:in Maschine you need to use it as a plugin to really get a good idea of your final sound/mix.
Wrong. you don't need to use it as a plugin to do that.
JaysonJoyce wrote:As many have said before, Maschine needs more finishing features.
lol Something that needs "more finishing" is the MPC software.
JaysonJoyce wrote:#2) Maschine, like most NI Software, adds a lot of complexity with updates and software.
Wrong. Maschine is very different from any other NI software. It's the farthest thing from "a lot of complexity" by design. It's all about ease and simplicity of use and intuitiveness.
JaysonJoyce wrote:Things like colored cells are nice for marketing but in actual workflow, I only need the green, red & yellow colors of the MPC. For example-in the marketing NI shows different colored Kicks, Snares, etc in a loop and you can see all of them at one time on the Maschine. In the real world, musicians/producers would use 1 track for each so you have more control of the sounds and then use busses/grouping to mix the loop. I am only looking at the colors for velocity or available pads or something basic and I don't need the rainbow to do that.
The new RGB colors on the hardware is only relevant to the MKII models. You don't have to use the color feature on the software.
JaysonJoyce wrote:I don't know what bugs one of the posters mentioned but I haven't seen one bug in 1.3
:lol: Just because you haven't come across the many existing bugs doesn't mean they not there. Refer to the info provided above.
JaysonJoyce wrote:and Akai updates the MPC software faster than NI does. At this rate they will get to 2.0 quick than NI will.
You have to realize that Akai is new to the software game. They don't exactly have a track record of providing software updates. They've been forced to release mostly bug fixes. The number of the software does not reflect the quality, useability, or stability of the software.
JaysonJoyce wrote:My advice is to really try and find something that matches your individual workflow.
I completely agree but that's just stating the obvious.
JaysonJoyce wrote:If everyone says the software is bad like MPC Version 1 then its probably true but when everyone says 1.3 is better then its probably true as well
:lol:

If "everyone says"? How exactly do you find out what "everyone" says? lol

H20nly
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Re: Maschine vs. MPC Studio

Post by H20nly » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:25 pm

@ Jason - just walk away dude. enjoy your MPC. you don't need to read about problems you're not having to be convinced that they exist by the text/Maschine version of Jordan Rudess

lo.key
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Re: Maschine vs. MPC Studio

Post by lo.key » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:36 pm

thanks for that humnumb! Its good to be reminded that every forum is filled with people who will criticize whatever they are working with, it helps to keep things in perspective to know that someone will always have a problem with something!

JaysonJoyce
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Re: Maschine vs. MPC Studio

Post by JaysonJoyce » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:24 pm

lo.key & H2Only....good idea lol. I haven't had any bug problems and like i said I was looking for them and bought the thing twice because it got fixed. I will just say that I could make a list of 50 things on maschine that personally don't like and it wouldn't take me long. My point is that much off the back and forth are things people to deal with if they like the overall work flow. that humnumb (by the way - great name) has gone thru all that effort for that post is crazy to me. Spend more time making music, im sure it is a better use of it.

humnumb
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Re: Maschine vs. MPC Studio

Post by humnumb » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:11 pm

JaysonJoyce wrote:I will just say that I could make a list of 50 things on maschine that personally don't like and it wouldn't take me long.
I will just say that I was just offering corrections backed up with supporting evidence and explanations to all the false assumptions and misinformation found in your post. It had nothing to do with making a list of things I personally don't like about Ren/Studio.

All you did was make a bunch of purely subjective statements mixed with downright misleading and unfounded claims about MPC Studio vs. Maschine without anything to back them up. It just came across as a rather pitiful attempt to rationalize the shortcomings of the still buggy MPC software and make it seem superior to Maschine just because you personally like using it.

JaysonJoyce
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Re: Maschine vs. MPC Studio

Post by JaysonJoyce » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:50 pm

How can they be purely subjective statements when I make my living producing music and use the software everyday for hours a day and don't see any bugs? So in your world I should say there are bugs when I don't have any or I should troll MPC forums looking for bugs? Also I said a lot of software is good and pick the one you like and that is making MPC seem superior? I specifically said "my workflow" in the post and that is a pitiful attempt to rationalize shortcomings? Not going to waste anymore time on responses. The comments after your response say enough.

humnumb
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Re: Maschine vs. MPC Studio

Post by humnumb » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:19 am

You got it all mixed up, dawg. Here, I'll break it down for you.

"purely subjective statements":
JaysonJoyce wrote:The new MPC version 1.3 software has been rock solid.
JaysonJoyce wrote:For the way I work, the MPC is at least 2 to 3x faster to get ideas down that are usable.
JaysonJoyce wrote:Things like colored cells are nice for marketing but in actual workflow, I only need the green, red & yellow colors of the MPC.
JaysonJoyce wrote:I am only looking at the colors for velocity or available pads or something basic and I don't need the rainbow to do that.
"false assumptions and misinformation":
JaysonJoyce wrote:You could pretty much finish a complete mastered song in the MPC
^ Falsely implying that you can't do that in Maschine.
JaysonJoyce wrote:Maschine, like most NI Software, adds a lot of complexity with updates and software.
"downright misleading and unfounded claims about MPC Studio vs. Maschine without anything to back them up":
JaysonJoyce wrote:The mixer features are much more powerful on the MPC.
JaysonJoyce wrote:in Maschine you need to use it as a plugin to really get a good idea of your final sound/mix.
"pitiful attempt to rationalize the shortcomings of the still buggy MPC software and make it seem superior to Maschine just because you personally like using it":
JaysonJoyce wrote:I don't know what bugs one of the posters mentioned but I haven't seen one bug in 1.3 and Akai updates the MPC software faster than NI does. At this rate they will get to 2.0 quick than NI will.
JaysonJoyce wrote:If everyone says the software is bad like MPC Version 1 then its probably true but when everyone says 1.3 is better then its probably true as well
Corrections made to the misinformation found in above posts backed up with supporting evidence/explanations: viewtopic.php?p=1502689#p1502689

3dot...
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Re: Maschine vs. MPC Studio

Post by 3dot... » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:31 am

carry on...
I'm intrigued..
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JaysonJoyce
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Re: Maschine vs. MPC Studio

Post by JaysonJoyce » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:34 am

Don't call me "dawg". You don't know me like that.
Like I said- Your comments tell the story.

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Re: Maschine vs. MPC Studio

Post by 3dot... » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:44 am

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H20nly
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Re: Maschine vs. MPC Studio

Post by H20nly » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:57 am

:lol:
LoopStationZebra wrote:it's like a hipster commie pinko manifesto. Rambling. Angry. Nearly divorced from all reality; yet strangely compelling with a ring of truth.

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