Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Blendton
Posts: 237
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:29 pm
Location: France

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by Blendton » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:20 am

I used to see the .db file you want to deleyte to tyhe rescan being done by the program itself.

I can't tell it for sure, since if could be on MacOS not Windows, but as far as I travaled back and forth from here to community answers side of helping you that's what I always say to do for Live being, after deleting the index file, personaly I would even delete the folder itself not just the file, to be sure next launch will be aware of "OMG, NO INDEX ! WTF?? MUST RESCAN" ...

But on ableton.com, the fact is, I see the que'stion, I answer what's above as I can, then I guess "solved" since nobody say thank you in this special "community answers" stuff. The two ones having your bug or "double / missing double etc" occurrences ---> I can't tell you that after that you'll be loving 9's browser.

I just can say for sure killng that .db file or even folder will rescan. Yes, he's stupid. So no index, he'll redo it ;)
Antoine, aka Blendton.

OS : Windows 8 Professional with Media Center - x64
Ableton Live 9 Suite (64-bit) & Ableton Suite 8 + Max for Live (32-bit)
Toshiba Qosmio F750 + lenticular glasses-free 3D
i7 2670QM 2,20GHz - 2x4GB DDR3-1333 - 5400rpm HDD

TYLRbass
Posts: 277
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:51 pm

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by TYLRbass » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:08 pm

Goddard wrote:In Live 9 library ("Core Library"?) all instruments and effects have doubled presets! One preset of two doesn't exist, but name of the preset is still in the browser (after clicking the message appear "The file doesn't exist. Please rescan your library."). How in hell can I rescan the library?!!! I right click the browser and get the "No Commands Available" message all the time! It's annoying as hell!!! There's nothing about this issue in the manual so RTFM rule doesn't apply here!
All that browser bull causes that I don't even notice any of advantages that update was supposed to introduce...
Abes should have release 9.0.2 with that funken browser bugs fixed like week ago...
We are on the 10th page of this thread and Abes don't care...
WTF?!
Rescan from the preferences I believe.. that whole doubling of presets was brought up in the beta phase, but we all know that means nothing other than that they are aware of the bug but who knows when it will be fixed..
Image

tommeehowat
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:26 pm

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by tommeehowat » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:40 pm

Hi don't know if this helps but first time installing live 9 it scans all external folder for samples when you add it as a 'Place' folder.
Try making that folder very small, let it scan, close Live, then add all your samples to that location. Start Live, folders should now show up under that Place folder/drive, with content and without scanning every file as was the case before in Live 8.

3dot...
Posts: 9996
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:10 pm

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by 3dot... » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:02 pm

tommeehowat wrote:Hi don't know if this helps but first time installing live 9 it scans all external folder for samples when you add it as a 'Place' folder.
Try making that folder very small, let it scan, close Live, then add all your samples to that location. Start Live, folders should now show up under that Place folder/drive, with content and without scanning every file as was the case before in Live 8.
IT HELPS !

thanx for that..
Image

H20nly
Posts: 15836
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: The Wild West

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by H20nly » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:26 pm

tommeehowat wrote:Hi don't know if this helps but first time installing live 9 it scans all external folder for samples when you add it as a 'Place' folder.
Try making that folder very small, let it scan, close Live, then add all your samples to that location. Start Live, folders should now show up under that Place folder/drive, with content and without scanning every file as was the case before in Live 8.
that sounds pretty clever...
it could be hard to do this with an external drive, but :idea: you could temporarily use a dummy drive (USB stick for example) with the same name and/or folder naming convention where the mother load is stored.

Michael Hatsis
Posts: 1807
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:27 pm
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by Michael Hatsis » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:16 am

I didn't upgrade to Live 9- a big reason is because of the "browser", so i can't test this out. Wouldn't you have to do this trick every time you boot up live?

Mike

Amaury
Posts: 5884
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:59 pm
Location: Ableton Headquarters
Contact:

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by Amaury » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:33 am

What's describe here doesn't make a difference: files and folders added later to a folder are scanned the same as if they were present in the first place, when registering the folder.

Again: we're suffering from a bad issue which makes indexing painful. We are addressing it as we speak. It's much worse on OSX than on Windows:
- The Indexer may take way too much CPU, which may cause dropouts. On Windows, as far as I can tell, the CPU usage of the Indexer is not impeding music making.
- Indexing takes far too long. We are working on improving this dramatically. It may be done in different steps so that we can continuously improve. In the end, the desired behavior is that files should appear as fast as possible.

Kind regards,
Amaury
Ableton Product Team

ze2be
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:17 am
Location: Mos Eisley

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by ze2be » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:55 am

Thank you for keeping us notet here Amaury, we appreciate it more then you know!
? ? ? ? ?

androids
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:12 am

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by androids » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:11 pm

tommeehowat wrote:Hi don't know if this helps but first time installing live 9 it scans all external folder for samples when you add it as a 'Place' folder.
Try making that folder very small, let it scan, close Live, then add all your samples to that location. Start Live, folders should now show up under that Place folder/drive, with content and without scanning every file as was the case before in Live 8.
That's not true.
I added empty versions of all my subfolders in my main "sample folders", scanned them, then closed Live.
When I start Live again, the "Ableton Index.exe" process is starting and start scanning all the content, done in background.

Anyway if you dont scan the content, it will no be displayed, so the only solution is to add and scan all you sample/lib content, wait, wait, wait, wait until it's done and use live.
Too bad if you have a slow computer.

I also noticed that on windows the "Ableton index.exe" process is launched with a default priority of "lower than normal", so if you want to process scan at first, before really using ableton, I suggest to change the priority to something like "high", it should be faster ...

androids
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:12 am

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by androids » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:20 pm

Amaury wrote: - The Indexer may take way too much CPU, which may cause dropouts. On Windows, as far as I can tell, the CPU usage of the Indexer is not impeding music making.
That is pretty wrong : yes it runs in the background and do not impact on realtime audio process (by chance), BUT you *need* to scan you whole disks/folders/lib/whatever to have them displayed, so to say it short : you CANT make music without first indexing the whole stuff. (unlike in Live 8 ...)

So, it *IS* impeding music making at first stage !

3dot...
Posts: 9996
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:10 pm

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by 3dot... » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:33 pm

androids wrote:
Amaury wrote: - The Indexer may take way too much CPU, which may cause dropouts. On Windows, as far as I can tell, the CPU usage of the Indexer is not impeding music making.
That is pretty wrong : yes it runs in the background and do not impact on realtime audio process (by chance), BUT you *need* to scan you whole disks/folders/lib/whatever to have them displayed, so to say it short : you CANT make music without first indexing the whole stuff. (unlike in Live 8 ...)

So, it *IS* impeding music making at first stage !
I think this is mainly to do with the intention to make the browser 'intelligent' and abstracted.
so there is no control or knowledge of what and when the browser is doing its thing.
this would've been great if it was actually discrete and not intrusive process...
when it takes a toll on the program globally.. then its bad.

I think user disabling folders ("places") from indexing (by default) will fix this.
Let us choose when and which "place" is indexed.

In Windows browser, you can still search un-indexed locations.
you are prompted with a notice that says search will be slower because of this. and you are given an option to index the location.

I would also suggest an entry in the browser for browsing the computer folder hierarchy without making it a "place".. for simple browsing.
as in Live 8.
I don't mind using the Win browser.. but this wasn't (as) necessary in L8
Image

ian_halsall
Posts: 1711
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 8:52 am
Location: South London
Contact:

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by ian_halsall » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:37 pm

I was discussing the other day with a colleague how it was ridiculous that Microsoft have never managed to get windows exploder to work properly.

Coming from a UNIX background you expect it to work like grep - but it doesn't.

Slightly tangential I know but it highlights the problems of getting an indexed file system scanner to work properly.

Amaury
Posts: 5884
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:59 pm
Location: Ableton Headquarters
Contact:

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by Amaury » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:39 pm

androids wrote:
Amaury wrote: - The Indexer may take way too much CPU, which may cause dropouts. On Windows, as far as I can tell, the CPU usage of the Indexer is not impeding music making.
That is pretty wrong : yes it runs in the background and do not impact on realtime audio process (by chance), BUT you *need* to scan you whole disks/folders/lib/whatever to have them displayed, so to say it short : you CANT make music without first indexing the whole stuff. (unlike in Live 8 ...)

So, it *IS* impeding music making at first stage !
Ok I see what you're saying. I used the wrong words. The fact that the indexer doesn't impact audio playback is not by chance though, rather by design.
Ableton Product Team

Amaury
Posts: 5884
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:59 pm
Location: Ableton Headquarters
Contact:

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by Amaury » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:40 pm

3dot... wrote:
androids wrote:
Amaury wrote: - The Indexer may take way too much CPU, which may cause dropouts. On Windows, as far as I can tell, the CPU usage of the Indexer is not impeding music making.
That is pretty wrong : yes it runs in the background and do not impact on realtime audio process (by chance), BUT you *need* to scan you whole disks/folders/lib/whatever to have them displayed, so to say it short : you CANT make music without first indexing the whole stuff. (unlike in Live 8 ...)

So, it *IS* impeding music making at first stage !
I think this is mainly to do with the intention to make the browser 'intelligent' and abstracted.
so there is no control or knowledge of what and when the browser is doing its thing.
this would've been great if it was actually discrete and not intrusive process...
when it takes a toll on the program globally.. then its bad.

I think user disabling folders ("places") from indexing (by default) will fix this.
Let us choose when and which "place" is indexed.

In Windows browser, you can still search un-indexed locations.
you are prompted with a notice that says search will be slower because of this. and you are given an option to index the location.

I would also suggest an entry in the browser for browsing the computer folder hierarchy without making it a "place".. for simple browsing.
as in Live 8.
I don't mind using the Win browser.. but this wasn't (as) necessary in L8
That's understood. Our first priority is to make the indexing work as we envision it. To repeat: to make the indexer work faster, and less taxing on the CPU.
Ableton Product Team

TYLRbass
Posts: 277
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:51 pm

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by TYLRbass » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:59 pm

If I were going to use Live 9 for a gig (because I want to use max4live) is there any way to turn indexing off?

I suppose I could get rid of all of my Places but then I will have to go through all of that annoying scanning again..

Maybe I could move the index file temporarily and then replace it after the gig?
Image

Post Reply