Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
ShelLuser
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by ShelLuser » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:08 am

tbh I'm sitting a little bit in between. So far I don't really hate the new browser perse but in the past days that I've used it I did notice several issues.

Thing is that "indexed browsers" can quickly turn out to be a nightmare. My annoyances basically consist of installing a livepack after which not all its contents shows up in the browser even though I can clearly see that it did install everything as intended.

To be more precise: after I installed Orchestral Strings (iirc) it listed 2 samples and no 'sounds' (presets). Since you no longer have the option to repair your library (or force a rescan of some sort) I ended up removing the livepack and then re-installing it again.

When that was over it did list several sounds.

Even so; the problem should be obvious; there is no easy way to tell if the browser has actually imported all the required contents.

Disclaimer: At the time of writing my Live 9 experience is only a few days so I can't say for sure that I didn't overlook stuff. But from my IT background I can say that using an indexed browser can often result in nastyness (adding files which don't show up).
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

ian_halsall
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by ian_halsall » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:27 am

it's a bit illogical at first but I quite like it now

now it's quite logical indeed

Angstrom
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by Angstrom » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:57 am

I always amazed at people saying "oh I think it's quite good!", the thing is riddled with bugs and pretty much unusable.

Ever try to see multiple attributes such as Name, Change-Date and Filesize at the same time?
Ever try saving a preset and see what happens to it?
Ever try moving that misplaced preset to a new folder?

Surely the categories should be drop targets, that then send the object to store in the user library, but show up in the categories as dragged/dropped.

[edit : a big gif was here, but I think I was mistaken about what it showed, or at let I am now unsure about it. So I removed to to prevent confusion ]

I find the new browser to be a giant pain in the arse. Sure it's quick to perform certain tasks, but any time I try to do something specific with it I am sent down blind alleys and soon get stuck.
Last edited by Angstrom on Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ezelkow1
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by ezelkow1 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:04 am

In your example I dont think the browser is showing the preset is in a winds folder. The 'winds' is not expanded, its showing the preset is residing outside of all folders and just in 'analog', so basically unassigned to any category but exists in analog

ShelLuser
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by ShelLuser » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:52 am

Angstrom wrote:I always amazed at people saying "oh I think it's quite good!", the thing is riddled with bugs and pretty much unusable.

Ever try to see multiple attributes such as Name, Change-Date and Filesize at the same time?
Ever try saving a preset and see what happens to it?
Ever try moving that misplaced preset to a new folder? HOW?
One guys flaw is another guys profit.

But yeah; I have to concur, the more I start using the browser the more I come across mishaps. Obviously your first point, but to extend a bit on that if I may...

How about files which are present on the physical filesystem not showing up in the browser? I've noticed this issue for 2 times now and atm trying to create a solid re-producible situation. But it doesn't feel solid.

Also the small bits; why can't I have more than one folder collapsed without having to press control before collapsing it?

As if they don't want you to gain an global overview.

And even the smaller bits; how about documenting the fact that if you install Live 9 you're basically re-installing all your contents, as such starting up 2 sample collections instead of one ?

I've seen just too many people asking about this (and NOT asking about this) to mention this as well. Though obviously this isn't a browser issue perse, merely closely related.

As for myself I don't quite hate it (wouldn't call it a joke as of yet perse) but do wholeheartedly agree that it has quite some issues.

I should get some sleep :)
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

ezelkow1
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by ezelkow1 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:39 am

ShelLuser wrote:
But yeah; I have to concur, the more I start using the browser the more I come across mishaps. Obviously your first point, but to extend a bit on that if I may...

How about files which are present on the physical filesystem not showing up in the browser? I've noticed this issue for 2 times now and atm trying to create a solid re-producible situation. But it doesn't feel solid.
That seemed to be alot of consensus on the beta as well, at first everyone thought it was all nifty, but once you tried using it for a week or two then all the usability problems became very evident, so just give it time and Im sure all the people just starting out who werent in the beta will start to realize them

For your issue, make sure anything you add you have done so while live is running. It was a known and unfixed issue where live will only index changes to your 'places' while it is running, so if you have a directory indexed, close live, add files, then re-open, they wont be there. You have to remove and re-add with live open since it will only pick up changes while running

FrankieP
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by FrankieP » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:37 am

ezelkow1 wrote:For your issue, make sure anything you add you have done so while live is running. It was a known and unfixed issue where live will only index changes to your 'places' while it is running, so if you have a directory indexed, close live, add files, then re-open, they wont be there. You have to remove and re-add with live open since it will only pick up changes while running
That's just f^<}*n@ awful!!! What if i'm editing samples in another audio program? I have to have Live9 open and running in the background just so it'll find the new or edited sample?

pencilrocket
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by pencilrocket » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:42 am

we need another Liveindexer always running background to burn our drives 8)
Image

ezelkow1
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by ezelkow1 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:37 am

FrankieP wrote:
ezelkow1 wrote:For your issue, make sure anything you add you have done so while live is running. It was a known and unfixed issue where live will only index changes to your 'places' while it is running, so if you have a directory indexed, close live, add files, then re-open, they wont be there. You have to remove and re-add with live open since it will only pick up changes while running
That's just f^<}*n@ awful!!! What if i'm editing samples in another audio program? I have to have Live9 open and running in the background just so it'll find the new or edited sample?
yup, if the name of the file has changed when you edited it and you have a new copy, it wont be there until you do something with that file while live is open. Either rename it, or move it around, whatever, but that wont be reindexed until something is touched.

I brought it up during beta just cause alot of times I will like to download some sample packs and throw them into my sample dirs and then go listen to them later. I cant do that anymore since now live wont recognize them. But yours, and Im sure there are plenty of others, have many use cases where this just doesnt work along with my very simple case.

dazzer
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by dazzer » Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:02 am

^ If I wanna add samples to my own Samples library and have then show up in Live I have to do it while Live is open? Really? That, er , sucks no?

TheCoil
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by TheCoil » Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:36 am

I added the folders where my samples are stored, and just one pointing to my desktop and every time I open a new session, the folders are blank again. Also, sometimes when I click on the drums, instruments, or audio effects tabs, nothing shows up, just a blank pane. Super helpful!

JeffreyCJohnson
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by JeffreyCJohnson » Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:46 am

Angstrom wrote:I always amazed at people saying "oh I think it's quite good!", the thing is riddled with bugs and pretty much unusable.
The browser is a Joke
I agree that there is a lack of basic file management in 9. I've cross-ported from Mac to PC (new pc w/afap ssd's) and after 4 re-install attempts and as many different approaches to incorporating the Live 8 library I'm going back to 8.4 64-bit beta until they get it sorted out.

Dumping a large/mature/robust version 8 library into a dirty laundry hamper is lazy and irresponsible program design. The results are fairly predictable: duplicate files, empty user folder structures, project level version control problems, and a boat load of bugs.

Also, there's a typo in the Live 9 documentation:

> 5.1.2 User Folders
> . . .
> In order to work with your own folders in Live,
> you must first add them to the browser, either by
> dropping them directly into Live from the Explorer
> . . .
> After adding a user folder, Live will scan it,
> which “teaches” the browser about its contents
> . . .
> Note: adding a user folder does not actually move the folder to a new location

It doesn't move the files, it COPIES the files, and if you don't know that's happening you will loose valuable edits.

Following directions, I dropped the top-level directory of my largest user folder onto the browser from Explorer. The fact that it was my Live 8 library is irrelevant. :) Live 9 took two hours making a duplicate copy of all the files and folders... it took so long I expected stellar indexing results. (On the same drive it only takes Explorer 12 minutes to copy the same branch.) When Live was finished the user folder hierarchy was still mostly blank, and when the files did show up it was usually in very long lists; 1000's of files in one scroll box with *more* at the end.

And, project files that are perfectly linked from Live 8's point of view were full of missing files. (I did figure out how to deal with that, but it's too time consuming to consider except for very important projects.)

Maybe it's simply a failure of the educational system.
It could very well not be the browser's fault...
...maybe Live failed as a teacher. :)

Personally, I wish they would finish the 64-bit version and release 8.5 - it's a great program and it would be a shame to let it die. ;)

Amaury
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by Amaury » Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:45 am

dazzer wrote:^ If I wanna add samples to my own Samples library and have then show up in Live I have to do it while Live is open? Really? That, er , sucks no?
Live should detect changes to your folders even if these changes were made while Live was closed. On startup, registered folders are checked for new content.

This can't take time and we are currently looking at this, as well as this thread's creator's problem.
Ableton Product Team

dazzer
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by dazzer » Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:58 am

Amaury wrote:
dazzer wrote:^ If I wanna add samples to my own Samples library and have then show up in Live I have to do it while Live is open? Really? That, er , sucks no?
Live should detect changes to your folders even if these changes were made while Live was closed. On startup, registered folders are checked for new content.

This can't take time and we are currently looking at this, as well as this thread's creator's problem.
Thanks for chiming in Amuary. I'll have a play with this later when I'm in the studio just to confirm that Live detects the changes

puzzlefactory
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by puzzlefactory » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:55 am

Angstrom wrote:I always amazed at people saying "oh I think it's quite good!", the thing is riddled with bugs and pretty much unusable.

It depends how you use it at the end of the day.

Speaking as someone who never uses the search function (in either Live or any other DAW) i find the new browser to be fine and very usable. Although as mentioned in another thread it would be nice to be able to create sub-folders to better organize user preset racks.

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