Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
mdk
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by mdk » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:47 am

skatr2 wrote:A controller does the job but you spend more time getting it to work with Ableton than actually making music. Even the apc didn't meet production needs out the box. We had to wait and hope until someone tore apart the script to make it more functional.
That entirely depends on how you make music, for you and undoubtedly a lot of others the whole push / machine / apc thing is where its at and you want an optimised workflow based around that paradigm. For others a button-grid based preset-browser is neither here nor there.

Obviously the pain were experiencing is that existing workflows are being made to pay the price to support other flows that were not interested in, to continue my colloquialism theme its 'giving with one hand and taking with the other' :)
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Goddard
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by Goddard » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:48 am

skatr2 wrote:Truth is, many of us have been clamoring for something like push for years.
It's your "truth", mister... I don't give a shit about Push nor Maschine.
Just want to have all the new stuff with at least the same (better of course much appreciated...) performance as Live 8...
Is it too much to demand from the upgrade?
"Machines are the weapon employed by the capitalists to quell the revolt of specialized labor" Karl Marx

skatr2
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by skatr2 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:57 am

I get that. But as a company, Ableton won't be able to survive keeping their software so open. They really are a one trick pony, and when you are up against behemoth's like NI who are actively positioning themselves against you, you need to add more to your arsenal.

If push didn't have specific basic flow, (mind you usermode does give you personal customization), it wouldn't have sold and most of us looking for an integrated unit would have gone elsewhere. I don't need to chop samples to my unit...but I don't want one hand browsing on the computer while the other played samples...I had that already and its time for the next step.

I owned maschine and didn't like it. But the videos I have seen of push are similar to how I work. Very similar to how Hanz's APC script worked...which really helped nail down my personal work flow. ALSO this new setup may open it for other companies to employ similar integration. This is a win for most people...even if they aren't getting push specifically.

skatr2
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by skatr2 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:49 pm

Goddard wrote:
skatr2 wrote:Truth is, many of us have been clamoring for something like push for years.
It's your "truth", mister... I don't give a shit about Push nor Maschine.
Just want to have all the new stuff with at least the same (better of course much appreciated...) performance as Live 8...
Is it too much to demand from the upgrade?

That is my truth and many others'. I don't speak for you nor would I ever know what it is you are looking for. You have a 30 day opportunity to try live 9 to see if it meets your standards. If it doesn't...then demand better before you buy. If you were sucker enough to preorder then suck up your crap purchasing ideas. I am testing it right now before I buy it. So far IMO live 9 is easier to navigate than live 8...though I admit it seems to run a little slower and is a bit more resource intensive. It loads a little slower, but not to a point where its as debilitating as some describe. The improvements I have observed make for me a good upgrade worth my loot.

Just because YOU "mister" aren't looking for more hardware integration and are OK with a few bells and whistles added to software is your deal. The rest of us in the real world see the competitors making edges that could make ableton look like the limited use sequencer it once was and personally I would like to see them stick around longer against the other major brands. You stagnate and you end up getting devoured by those bigger companies and then we are all unhappy.

pencilrocket
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by pencilrocket » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:08 pm

Goddard wrote:
skatr2 wrote:Truth is, many of us have been clamoring for something like push for years.
It's your "truth", mister... I don't give a shit about Push nor Maschine.
Just want to have all the new stuff with at least the same (better of course much appreciated...) performance as Live 8...
Is it too much to demand from the upgrade?
I agree. Live is DAW while Maschine isn't. Comparing doens't make sense at all.

maky355
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by maky355 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:57 pm

Guys..is this a bad joke or something..

I am demoing Live 9 and browser is..WHAT THE HECK.

In Live 8 i could place Windows folder shortcuts in Live library and live 8 browser can see it. And every time i want to browse, drag to, save to, my folders which are on different drive, in Live 8 i can just browse to my shortcuts and drag to it and everything is saved where it needed to be.

Live 9 does not recognize Windows folder shortcut at ALL - That has to be a joke. They said that they improved it, but for some reason under "improved" they removed superb functionality..that has to be a joke right...i am simply missing something...

Do not tell me that i should just drag these folders to new browser because even if i do, live 9 does strange things and copies something whatever..

Why i can't use windows folder shortcut anymore??

In case anyone want to ask why i am using windows folder shortcut in my live 8 broweser, it's because it is super intuitive and i can keep my "real" files in place where i want (which is scheduled for periodical backup etc.etc.etc.)..

anyway it worked in live 8 beautiful..

c33
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by c33 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:38 pm

skatr2 wrote:I get that. But as a company, Ableton won't be able to survive keeping their software so open. They really are a one trick pony, and when you are up against behemoth's like NI who are actively positioning themselves against you, you need to add more to your arsenal.

If push didn't have specific basic flow, (mind you usermode does give you personal customization), it wouldn't have sold and most of us looking for an integrated unit would have gone elsewhere. I don't need to chop samples to my unit...but I don't want one hand browsing on the computer while the other played samples...I had that already and its time for the next step.

I owned maschine and didn't like it. But the videos I have seen of push are similar to how I work. Very similar to how Hanz's APC script worked...which really helped nail down my personal work flow. ALSO this new setup may open it for other companies to employ similar integration. This is a win for most people...even if they aren't getting push specifically.
It seems like I occasionally see posts around here that talk about Ableton as though it's a company teetering on the edge of ruin. No. Push may be a big part of the next step in Ableton's evolution, but Live on its own continues to hold its own (and then some), and it's not going anywhere anytime soon. There's a lot more than one trick to that pony!

Anyway, back to the browser. I haven't upgraded but I'm sorry to read so many are having issues with it right now.

drez
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by drez » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:13 am

Amaury,

Can you say if Live is using an embedded SQL, "No SQL", or home grown database solution?
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friend_kami
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by friend_kami » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:39 am

Amaury wrote:
ezelkow1 wrote:
Amaury wrote:...
So would something like what others have suggested not be possible, the solution where at least in the places section you could immediately show all files but continue indexing them in the background to show up in the browser and searches? That way you get the best of both worlds, the user doesnt have to turn on/off indexing, but they still get immediate access to any files in their places while still being able to eventually find them in the browser area and searches once they are indexed
That's imaginable yes. After we fix the indexer performances, we actually want to look into something of this effect.
i'm curious. how come it's not fixed?
how come it wasn't fixed on release?
this was an active and ongoing topic on the beta boards, so you obviously knew about the problem since you participated in the conversations about it.

mdk
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by mdk » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:31 am

drez wrote:Amaury,

Can you say if Live is using an embedded SQL, "No SQL", or home grown database solution?
its sqlite 3. you can find the .db files in some of the program folders. they're not hidden :)
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zeepster
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by zeepster » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:06 am

If i make the .db file ReadOnly, will that stop the indexing? (for now)

androids
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by androids » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:23 pm

added 30 more folder to my already big database last night ...

loaded ableton, indexer started, went to bed.

when I woke up : ableton indexer crashed my OS, Harddisk not bootable anymore (missing bootmgr)

had to fix the HD boot sector 3 times with windows DVD repair tool

loaded ableton : "SQL logic error or missing database", then "ableton index serious error occured GTerminateHandler".

-> database corrupt (54+ hours to create it, I'm *VERY* happy as you can imagine).

tried to copy the database before deleting it -> crc error on file, coulnd't be copied ...

erased it ...

bye bye Live9 for now. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Hielo Patagonia Sounds
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by Hielo Patagonia Sounds » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:44 pm

WOW !!! 8O I'm definitively sticking with my "old" Ableton Live 8 ... I'm even thinking to switch to an hardware solution (maybe an OctaTrack ?).

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Last edited by Hielo Patagonia Sounds on Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

beatz01
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by beatz01 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:46 pm

Amaury wrote:No indexing at all is not an option.
Thanks for the straight answer, that means no Live9 for me.

Sorry, but the mandatory indexing is ridiculous.

I bet it's all because L9 has been designed with one main purpose in mind:

To first and foremost serve the mighty Push, everything else is secondary.

That thinking (to want to compete with Maschine) is Abletons big fail here.

zeepster
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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Post by zeepster » Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:18 pm

Amaury wrote:No indexing at all is not an option. Making scanning more transparent is what we are working on. The browser is driven by the database, and we use the database and queries for many things, such as Hot-Swap filtering or search.

Once the scanning is made more transparent, we'll see what's left of wishes to "browse un-indexed locations" and decide then. We have to do it in this order.

Kind regards,
Amaury
I'm shocked. The most basic and creatively important function of this DAW, to simply and freely browse my disks & folders and grab sounds using normal file hierarchy is gone. Ableton drops a user friendly function and gives us indexing.

All my producer colleagues, who work with Live professionally, myself included, use Live 8 at this point. Though they bought 9.
They find the browser counter productive.

Thanks Abes. Sticking to your guns with the indexing, not allowing a Browser 8 functionality will make less of us future buyers.

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