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Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:28 am
by Angstrom
3dot... wrote:
Angstrom wrote:I was in L9 and had made some drum clips for later use, so decided to drag them into my library. So, I guess I just drag them onto the entry marked "Clips"? Uh, apparently no. I got the "no go" icon there. Weird. Cant save clips?

So I open up the "user basement" where they allow us to keep our stuff, navigate to my old trusty live-songs/clips/drums folder. Boom. Saved. So NOW I guess my clips will show in the dedicated clips dept.
Nope. Nothing. VIP clips only I guess, or perhaps I need to wait half an hour? Who knows.

Quality, quality work.
that's weird.. saving clips to my user library here..
they come up quickly under 'clips' if I search for them

Well, it doesn't work here. At least a day later, the clip is in my /Live 9 songs/clips folder. It does not show up in the dedicated Clips section.

Image


The same thing happens with samples. None of my samples show up in their part of the browser
Image

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:17 am
by 3dot...
oh.. I put mine in the 'User Library'...
just tried it your way.. .and indeed.. it sucks

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:21 am
by H20nly
oof... the one flavour fits all dilemma... Ableton should tread light.

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:25 am
by 3dot...
seems that in any other 'places' other than 'user library' and 'packs'... you need to search explicitly inside the "custom place"
bug?

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:48 pm
by Rosko
My issues with browser. Categories needs vastly improving, a complete re-design or get rid of it. Currently the only thing i use categories is for vst plugins (thank god i am still able to keep my file structure with this) & native instruments & fx which unfortunately do not have any way to organise and have to use the user pre-sets for these in places because categories will not let you organise them.
The samples category is a just a bunch of samples with no organisation that i will probable never use. Clips category the same just a mess.
Max for live again same problem as the native instruments no file structure so no way to organise so have to use places.
Drums category again no organization & the kits IMO are week so i rarely use them.
The sounds category is one of the biggest let downs as was hoping to make use of it but there is no easy way to define the sounds.
So at the very least would have been nice to hide categories i don't use because Ableton missed the boat on letting you organize stuff. Because i need the room as relying on places. Places needs a bit of work in itself although not as much.
The ability to hide or at least move the 4 top folders, the ability to add colour to the folder would help.
Categories is the major week point though the lack of organisation & having to use places means it very disjointed & clunky to use.

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:15 pm
by 3dot...
the borwser is very limited in scope I agree..
although I can use it easily knowing it's limitations..
it's a shame we can't get direct access to the folder structure..
other than indexing whole drives and therefore bulking up the Live file index...
the freedom to move stuff around using the Live browser is virtually gone.. which is a shame
it's unintuitive...
but I'm betting it'll get better with time (and our feedback).

many years after.. Ableton still manages to introduce us to new workarounds.. in this case using the OS file browser a lot

in the meantime..
if you want things to come up under 'categories' just save'em to the 'user Library'

I wouldn't say this browser is "weak".. but it's not "as" user friendly...

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:05 pm
by nathannn
On Windows 7 I have a project where some samples are missing, I will do a search with lives built in search and it WILL find them.
When I right click the sample to select show in browser nothing happens, when I right click to select show in explorer nothing happens, When I go to drag the files into the arrange view nothing happens.

Also live will not show me the full location of where the sample was found so I can just manually drop the sample in.

:evil: :evil: :evil:

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:41 pm
by H20nly
^ this is the part where someone comes in and starts talking about Reaper or some other DAW... since everyone seems so exhausted i'll do it.


but Reaper is so dope and it's cheap. Reaper yeah... Reaper.

Pro-tools had that one feature since 1979

fuck Live.


/public service

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:02 pm
by tedlogan
Angstrom wrote:
3dot... wrote:
Angstrom wrote:I was in L9 and had made some drum clips for later use, so decided to drag them into my library. So, I guess I just drag them onto the entry marked "Clips"? Uh, apparently no. I got the "no go" icon there. Weird. Cant save clips?

So I open up the "user basement" where they allow us to keep our stuff, navigate to my old trusty live-songs/clips/drums folder. Boom. Saved. So NOW I guess my clips will show in the dedicated clips dept.
Nope. Nothing. VIP clips only I guess, or perhaps I need to wait half an hour? Who knows.

Quality, quality work.
that's weird.. saving clips to my user library here..
they come up quickly under 'clips' if I search for them

Well, it doesn't work here. At least a day later, the clip is in my /Live 9 songs/clips folder. It does not show up in the dedicated Clips section.

Image


The same thing happens with samples. None of my samples show up in their part of the browser
Image
It won't if you don't save the files to the user library folders that correspond to the default ones.

In the siuation above, I would just have dragged my clip into the User Library's "clips" folder. It will then show up in the category of clips in the top left bit of the browser as well, or when searching. I do add a "_" before anything I save there though, so it shows up on top.

The User Library is the same structure as the default library, and I use this to my advantage. One positive is that it's forced me to organize my clips/samples etc.
Guess I'm one of the few who likes the new browser (for the most part), whether using it in Live or with the Push (it does need improving/pre-set up though - I'd like to be able to see my own custom folders within the standard catogeries).

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:29 am
by Angstrom
It seems very odd to me that a browser which inists on scanning everything can't even use that gathered data to recognise an .alc or a wav ... unless it's in a very specific folder. One named "clips" for example.

So, Is this a database driven system, or a folder driven system?
The mandatory scanning in order to add user folders implies the contents are scanned ( and they are in the database, I looked). But why are these folders scanned at all if they don't even show as results on simple "category" queries?

I think your underscore hack shows that even a "satisfied" user needs to do odd hacky things in order to merely prioritise the display of his own content. A database driven system ought to be able to "show author=me, type= clip, date = previous month" quite easilly. Because that's the whole point of databases, you can query them with complex custom queries and save your favourite queries.

Usually.

This is why the answers such as " look in the folder / do it their way " annoy me. There is no their way, they seem to have specified a grey fog of indecision. They have no definite system. It's all hacks, workarounds and imprecision. There is nothing solid to conform to. Classification boudaries are blurred, and functional inconsistency abounds.
The database itself derives its taxonomic tags such as "ambient and evolving" from the file trees which it pretends to replace, and then does nothing good or usefully non-hierarchic with them. So why bother?

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:19 am
by eyeknow
H20nly wrote:^ this is the part where someone comes in and starts talking about Reaper or some other DAW... since everyone seems so exhausted i'll do it.


but Reaper is so dope and it's cheap. Reaper yeah... Reaper.

Pro-tools had that one feature since 1979

fuck Live.


/public service


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... Q7PNbAgG28

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:02 am
by re:dream
Angstrom wrote:This is why the answers such as " look in the folder / do it their way " annoy me. There is no their way, they seem to have specified a grey fog of indecision. They have no definite system. It's all hacks, workarounds and imprecision. There is nothing solid to conform to. Classification boudaries are blurred, and functional inconsistency abounds.
The database itself derives its taxonomic tags such as "ambient and evolving" from the file trees which it pretends to replace, and then does nothing good or usefully non-hierarchic with them. So why bother?

Agreed. I was not saying the browser is fine, or that the current Abes approach is rational. I was just saying that some of the complaints about the browser (not all, and not even most) seem to be based on not using it properly, and that some people's difficulties can be circumvented by just making sure they know what they are doing.

You are right that it is not acceptable that users have to use naming hacks etc to make the browser work for them. The browser should be able to browse your content accurately, no matter what files are called.

For my part, I have ended up mostly just ignoring the Categories part of the Live Browser. I have set up my User Library just the way I want it and 90% of the time I never even look at Categories. The only time I do is on the rare occasion where I want to listen to Ableton's presets.

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:14 pm
by tedlogan
Angstrom wrote:It seems very odd to me that a browser which inists on scanning everything can't even use that gathered data to recognise an .alc or a wav ... unless it's in a very specific folder. One named "clips" for example.

So, Is this a database driven system, or a folder driven system?
The mandatory scanning in order to add user folders implies the contents are scanned ( and they are in the database, I looked). But why are these folders scanned at all if they don't even show as results on simple "category" queries?

I think your underscore hack shows that even a "satisfied" user needs to do odd hacky things in order to merely prioritise the display of his own content. A database driven system ought to be able to "show author=me, type= clip, date = previous month" quite easilly. Because that's the whole point of databases, you can query them with complex custom queries and save your favourite queries.

Usually.


This is why the answers such as " look in the folder / do it their way " annoy me. There is no their way, they seem to have specified a grey fog of indecision. They have no definite system. It's all hacks, workarounds and imprecision. There is nothing solid to conform to. Classification boudaries are blurred, and functional inconsistency abounds.
The database itself derives its taxonomic tags such as "ambient and evolving" from the file trees which it pretends to replace, and then does nothing good or usefully non-hierarchic with them. So why bother?
I agree with you, it's wanky. But I have not let it bother me as I have conformed to the weird way it works. I can imagine it being a real headache for certain people's way of working. For me, for example, adding an underscore prefix to my naming convention is beyond a trivial issue. I don't care that it's not perfect. I'm too busy enjoying myself building racks for VSTs, and readying them for Push.

I fully understand and agree with the complaints though, but like I said, it does not bother me in the slightest to work around it - which I kind of enjoy.

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:18 pm
by chapelier fou
i am so pissed off that i decide to bring my voice to this topic and tell how stupid and useless the browser is. L8's was so much better. Able to browse at least, navigate in you hardrive. Not with a pointless classification, locked places and unability to drag'n'drop things in it.

Re: Live 9 browser NIGHTMARE !!!

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:44 pm
by zeepster
chapelier fou wrote:i am so pissed off that i decide to bring my voice to this topic and tell how stupid and useless the browser is. L8's was so much better. Able to browse at least, navigate in you hardrive. Not with a pointless classification, locked places and unability to drag'n'drop things in it.
Indeed.
And Ableton remains silent about the issue.