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 Post subject: Re: Can anyone explain to me how to the new Live 9 Library works
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:37 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:12 pm
Posts: 189
What about creating a sub category for audio effects & the m4l patches, hate just having one folder?


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 Post subject: Re: Can anyone explain to me how to the new Live 9 Library works
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:12 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:51 pm
Posts: 910
Location: Skopje, Macedonia
The folder names you can and can't use seem to be defined in the 'VirtualFolders.cfg' file in the Core Library, mine is here :

C:\ProgramData\Ableton\Live 9 Standard\Resources\Core Library\Ableton Folder Info\VirtualFolders.cfg

You'll see each 'virtual folder' has a pattern associated with it which defines the names it'll detect from the user library and packs I presume.

Not played with it much yet, but have been able to add my own top level folder to the Sounds category.

In the xml file I added this :

<VirtualFolder Name="MDK" Patterns="MDK"/>

within the Sounds virtual folder group, then I created a directory :

C:\ProgramData\Ableton\Live 9 Standard\Resources\Core Library\Sounds\MDK

Now if I add MDK folders within the User Library (e.g. Presets -> Instruments -> Operator -> MDK) and add content then it shows up in my MDK folder in Sounds. It doesn't show up in the Instruments -> Operator section though. Not worked out how to sort that out or if its possible.

At least it's a start.

Before Live 9 the first thing I did was to delete pretty much all the factory content (presets, clips, samples etc..) because I never use them, hopefully I'll find a way to clear all the crap out of this version as well otherwise most of the browser is just clutter. I dont like clutter.

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 Post subject: Re: Can anyone explain to me how to the new Live 9 Library works
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:56 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:12 pm
Posts: 189
I hate it. Just seems like everything is all over the place. The user folder shouldn't populate the main folder unless you want it to & if it does should at least keep the structure of your folders & sub folders.


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 Post subject: Re: Can anyone explain to me how to the new Live 9 Library works
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:54 pm
Posts: 72
So essentially, go to User Library > Presets > Instruments and add the following folders…

Ambient & Evolving
Bass
Brass
Effects
Exotic
Experimental
Guitar & Plucked
Mallets
Orchestral
Pad
Piano & Keys
Strings
Synth Keys
Synth Lead
Synth Misc
Synth Rhythmic
Vintage
Voices
Winds

Add them either into the root or within each Instrument. From then on, any device patches should be categorised into one of the above folders and it'll appear correctly.

D


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 Post subject: Re: Can anyone explain to me how to the new Live 9 Library works
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:48 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:09 pm
Posts: 210
I hate the idea of the same content showing up in more than one location.Totally confuses me.


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 Post subject: Re: Can anyone explain to me how to the new Live 9 Library works
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:02 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Posts: 12591
mdk wrote:
The folder names you can and can't use seem to be defined in the 'VirtualFolders.cfg' file in the Core Library, mine is here :

Not played with it much yet, but have been able to add my own top level folder to the Sounds category.

In the xml file I added this :

<VirtualFolder Name="MDK" Patterns="MDK"/>
<snip>


Heh, yeah, I wondered how many other people had started off down this route. I did a bit of that too. However, I realised that the work I was putting in to try and shape the browser to my requirements would likely cause further issues down the road. Also - that I was doing what I said I wouldn't ... wasting my time try to hack the program to make it work for me. It's simply easier to wait this situation out making music in Live 8, and just see what they come up with.

There are indications 'elsewhere' that they obviously have further plans for this thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Can anyone explain to me how to the new Live 9 Library works
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:13 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:50 pm
Posts: 11636
Location: MacAbleton Towers, sunny Manchester.
A tip I read on another thread the other day is make a Live Project, and open it as a Place. In that you can create folders with any name, and drag presets, clips, tracks, and Live brings in all the required stuff such as samples and whatnot. Best to import every option (set saving preferences to ask) to be on the safe side. Tip was from heatercore, ie 365 Live tips.

I do like the idea of basic categories in User as we've discussed. Can't go wrong with those. Not sure about going under the hood though.

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 Post subject: Re: Can anyone explain to me how to the new Live 9 Library works
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:26 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:50 pm
Posts: 11636
Location: MacAbleton Towers, sunny Manchester.
For reference:

Quote:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<Ableton MajorVersion="4" MinorVersion="9.0_299" SchemaChangeCount="5" Creator="Ableton Live 9.0b36">
<VirtualFolderConfig>
<Groups>

<VirtualFolderGroup GroupName="Sounds">
<Folders>
<VirtualFolder Name="Ambient &amp; Evolving" Patterns="Ambient &amp; Evolving, Ambient, Evolving"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Bass" Patterns="Bass, Basses, Synth Bass"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Brass" Patterns="Brass, Horns, Bass Trombone, Brass Ensemble, French Horn, Trombone , Trumpet, Tuba"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Effects" Patterns="Effects, FX, Special-FX, Special Effects"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Exotic" Patterns="Exotic"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Experimental" Patterns="Experimental"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Guitar &amp; Plucked" Patterns="Guitar &amp; Plucked, Plucked, Guitar, Guitar Amped, Guitar Clean, Harp"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Mallets" Patterns="Mallets, Crotales, Glockenspiel, Marimba, Suspended Cymbal, Timpani, Tubular Bells, Vibraphone, Xylophone"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Percussive" Patterns="Percussive, Percussives"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Piano &amp; Keys" Patterns="Piano &amp; Keys"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Strings" Patterns="Strings, Cello, Double Bass, Strings Ensemble, Viola, Violin"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Synth Keys" Patterns="Synth Keys"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Synth Lead" Patterns="Synth Lead"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Synth Misc" Patterns="Synth Misc, Synth"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Pad" Patterns="Synth Pad, Pad, Pads"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Synth Rhythmic" Patterns="Synth Rhythmic"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Vintage" Patterns="Vintage"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Voices" Patterns="Voices, Voice"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Winds" Patterns="Winds, Woodwinds, Alto Flute, Alto Sax, Bass Clarinet, Bassoon, Clarinet, Concert Flute, Contra Bassoon, English Horn, Oboe, Piccolo, Woodwinds Ensemble"/>
</Folders>
</VirtualFolderGroup>

<VirtualFolderGroup GroupName="Synths">
<Folders>
<VirtualFolder Name="Ambient &amp; Evolving" Patterns="Ambient &amp; Evolving, Ambient, Evolving"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Bass" Patterns="Bass, Basses, Synth Bass"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Brass" Patterns="Brass, Horns, Bass Trombone, Brass Ensemble, French Horn, Trombone , Trumpet, Tuba"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Components" Patterns="Components"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Effects" Patterns="Effects, FX, Special-FX, Special Effects"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Exotic" Patterns="Exotic"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Experimental" Patterns="Experimental"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Guitar &amp; Plucked" Patterns="Guitar &amp; Plucked, Plucked, Guitar, Guitar Amped, Guitar Clean, Harp"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Mallets" Patterns="Mallets, Crotales, Glockenspiel, Marimba, Suspended Cymbal, Timpani, Tubular Bells, Vibraphone, Xylophone"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Percussive" Patterns="Percussive, Percussives"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Piano &amp; Keys" Patterns="Piano &amp; Keys"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Strings" Patterns="Strings, Cello, Double Bass, Strings Ensemble, Viola, Violin"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Synth Keys" Patterns="Synth Keys"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Synth Lead" Patterns="Synth Lead"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Synth Misc" Patterns="Synth Misc, Synth"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Pad" Patterns="Synth Pad, Pad, Pads"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Synth Rhythmic" Patterns="Synth Rhythmic"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Templates" Patterns="Templates"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Vintage" Patterns="Vintage"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Voices" Patterns="Voices, Voice"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Winds" Patterns="Winds, Woodwinds, Alto Flute, Alto Sax, Bass Clarinet, Bassoon, Clarinet, Concert Flute, Contra Bassoon, English Horn, Oboe, Piccolo, Woodwinds Ensemble"/>
</Folders>
</VirtualFolderGroup>

<VirtualFolderGroup GroupName="Drums">
<Folders>
<VirtualFolder Name="Bell" Patterns="Bell, Bells, Belltree, Bell Tree, Jingle Bell, Chime, Chimes, Triangle, Triangles, Agogo, Agogos, Cowbell, Cowbells"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Bongo" Patterns="Bongo, Bongos"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Clap" Patterns="Clap, Claps"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Conga" Patterns="Conga, Congas, Quinto, Quintos, Tumba, Tumbas"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Cymbal" Patterns="Cymbal, Cymbals, Crash, Crash Cymbal, Crash Cymbals, Splash, Splash Cymbal, Splash Cymbals, China, Finger Cymbal, Finger Cymbals, Gong, Gongs"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Hihat" Patterns="Hihat, Hihats, HiHat, HiHats, Hi-hat, Hi-hats, Hi-Hat, Hi-Hats, High-Hat, High Hat, High-hat, High hat, High Hat, HH, hh, Charleston Machine,
Hihats Closed, Hihats Close, Hihats Open, Hihats Opened, HiHats Closed, HiHats Close, HiHats Open, HiHats Opened,
Hi-hats Closed, Hi-hats Close, Hi-hats Open, Hi-hats Opened, Hi-Hats Closed, Hi-Hats Close, Hi-Hats Open, Hi-Hats Opened,
Hats Closed, Hats Close, Hats Open, Hats Opened,
Closed Hihats, Close Hihats, Open Hihats, Opened Hihats, Closed HiHats, Close HiHats, Open HiHats, Opened HiHats,
Closed Hi-hats, Close Hi-hats, Open Hi-hats, Opened Hi-hats, Closed Hi-Hats, Close Hi-Hats, Open Hi-Hats, Opened Hi-Hats,
Closed Hihat, Close Hihat, Open Hihat, Closed HiHat, Close HiHat, Open HiHat,
Closed Hi-hat, Close Hi-hat, Open Hi-hat, Closed Hi-Hat, Close Hi-Hat, Open Hi-Hat,
Closed Hats, Open Hats, Closed Hat, Open Hat"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Kick" Patterns="Bass Drum, Bass Drums, BD, Kick, Kicks, Kick Drum"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Misc Percussion" Patterns="Percussion, Percussions, Hand Drum, Electronic Percussion, E-Percussion, Synth Percussion, Synth Perc, Synthetic Percussion, Combo Hits, Cuica, Cuicas, Finger Snip, Finger Snap, Samba Whstl, Surdo"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Ride" Patterns="Ride, Rides, Ride Cymbal, Ride Cymbals"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Rim" Patterns="Rim, Rimclick, Rim Click, Sidestick, Side Stick"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Shaker" Patterns="Shaker, Shakers, Cabasa, Caxixi, Maracas"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Snare" Patterns="Snare, Snares, Snare Drum, Snare Drums, SD"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Snare Articulation" Patterns="Snare Articulation, Snare Press, Snare Roll, Snare Rolls"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Tambourine" Patterns="Tambourine, Tambourin, Tamb, Tamborine, Pandeiro, Tmbourim, Tmbourin"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Timbales" Patterns="Timbales, Timbale, Timb, "/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Tom" Patterns="Tom, Toms, Tom-Tom, Tom-Toms"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Wood" Patterns="Wood, Wooden, Clave, Claves, Castagnet, Castagnets, Guiro, Guiros, Castanet, Castanets, Vibraslap"/>
</Folders>
</VirtualFolderGroup>

<VirtualFolderGroup GroupName="AudioFx">
<Folders>
<VirtualFolder Name="Amp Simulation" Patterns="Amp Simulation"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Mixing &amp; Mastering" Patterns="Mixing &amp; Mastering, Basic Mixing"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Modulation &amp; Rhythmic" Patterns="Modulation &amp; Rhythmic"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Performance &amp; DJ" Patterns="Performance &amp; DJ"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Space" Patterns="Space, Reverb, Delay"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Hall" Patterns="Hall"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Room" Patterns="Room"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Special" Patterns="Special"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Drums" Patterns="Drums"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Filter" Patterns="Filter"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Formant" Patterns="Formant"/>
<VirtualFolder Name="Instrument" Patterns="Instrument"/>
</Folders>
</VirtualFolderGroup>

<VirtualFolderGroup GroupName="MidiFx">
<Folders>
</Folders>
</VirtualFolderGroup>

</Groups>
</VirtualFolderConfig>
</Ableton>

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 Post subject: Re: Can anyone explain to me how to the new Live 9 Library works
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:28 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:51 pm
Posts: 910
Location: Skopje, Macedonia
Angstrom wrote:
mdk wrote:
The folder names you can and can't use seem to be defined in the 'VirtualFolders.cfg' file in the Core Library, mine is here :

Not played with it much yet, but have been able to add my own top level folder to the Sounds category.

In the xml file I added this :

<VirtualFolder Name="MDK" Patterns="MDK"/>
<snip>


Heh, yeah, I wondered how many other people had started off down this route. I did a bit of that too. However, I realised that the work I was putting in to try and shape the browser to my requirements would likely cause further issues down the road. Also - that I was doing what I said I wouldn't ... wasting my time try to hack the program to make it work for me. It's simply easier to wait this situation out making music in Live 8, and just see what they come up with.

There are indications 'elsewhere' that they obviously have further plans for this thing.


That's as far as I got and similarly I don't intend to take it any further. I did have a quick dig around the actual database as well (its just an sqlite 3 db) but unless I have a day where im feeling particularly adventurous and decide to completely wipe out the core library and build it from scratch then im leaving it for now.

Let's hope they come up with a reasonable solution, although I do get the feeling that its more of a case of offering progressively optimised hammers when I just want a screwdriver. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Can anyone explain to me how to the new Live 9 Library works
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:01 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Posts: 12591
mdk wrote:
That's as far as I got and similarly I don't intend to take it any further. I did have a quick dig around the actual database as well (its just an sqlite 3 db) but unless I have a day where im feeling particularly adventurous and decide to completely wipe out the core library and build it from scratch then im leaving it for now.



I've done more than just have a quick dig around, I built a little prototype browser which queries the database in M4L. My intention being to allow the display of all of the information and attributes of the items, and to provide an interface for me to (for example) search for anything in the database on my own terms. For example: list anything which was created by me, in the last month.
They have some established meta keys and values and I was just appending those to my entries. Quite non-destructive to the schema, as it's the same as any new MP3 file would do when it was indexed. Also I added the facility to search my info texts, where I added an ability to add arbitrary tags.

But then I realised I was wasting my life, so I stopped.

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Last edited by Angstrom on Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Can anyone explain to me how to the new Live 9 Library works
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:02 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:50 pm
Posts: 11636
Location: MacAbleton Towers, sunny Manchester.
anyone figured out why some racks go in Other and some go at the bottom without a folder?

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 Post subject: Re: Can anyone explain to me how to the new Live 9 Library works
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:14 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:51 pm
Posts: 910
Location: Skopje, Macedonia
Angstrom wrote:
But then I realised I was wasting my life, so I stopped.


Always an important realisation :D

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 Post subject: Re: Can anyone explain to me how to the new Live 9 Library works
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:54 pm
Posts: 72
I had high hope for the new Browser but I find it more and more confusing every time I use it. What i find most confusing is the multiple ways it can be browsed. This would be fine & even great if all roads led to Rome but they don't. Some stuff just doesn't appear where you would expect / want it. Therefore the Browser stops becoming browse-able and forces you into searching for exact specifics.

Some gripes:

— Installing non Ableton packs is a nightmare & requires a lot of manual moving & shuffling.
— Forced into using Ableton's predefined categories otherwise devices ends up in a folder called 'Other' with no order bar the device name.
— No M4L presets in the main Browser, instead all presets within Packs (which is fiddly to browse)
— Live8 completely separate & requires a lot of housekeeping by yourself to migrate into new user library
— Installing non Ableton Packs doesn't add them into the Pack section as you would expect (and as stated in the manual)… again requires heavy user ordering of content within the (very) fiddly Browser (try dragging content from one place to another).
— In general stuff is just scattered everywhere. Rather than a single space like Live8, stuff now could be in 4 different and unique areas (Categories, Packs, User Library, Live 8 Library).

Horrible.


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 Post subject: Re: Can anyone explain to me how to the new Live 9 Library works
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:52 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:50 pm
Posts: 11636
Location: MacAbleton Towers, sunny Manchester.
Dom Murphy wrote:
— In general stuff is just scattered everywhere. Rather than a single space like Live8, stuff now could be in 4 different and unique areas (Categories, Packs, User Library, Live 8 Library).


This is very deliberate. It's been split into 3 basically. I can't remember the exact reason given, but obviously making manageable chunks is one. You have your Core 9 Library and 3rd party stuff, all of which first show in Packs, and your User stuff you've saved in 9 showing in User Library.

Categories is simply a way of filtering the above in terms of... categories.

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 Post subject: Re: Can anyone explain to me how to the new Live 9 Library works
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:05 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:41 am
Posts: 733
What is clear to me is that Ableton should had made clear how the browser works and the principles behind it. We are here guessing and discovering how it functions, the manual is useless.


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