Select which clips fire on Scene Launch

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Buleriachk
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Select which clips fire on Scene Launch

Post by Buleriachk » Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:47 pm

I upgraded to live 9 Suite mostly to support Ableton, since I'm a Flamenco Guitarist, and don't want/need many of its features, although I recognize Ableton's extraordinary value in pushing forward the boundaries of music production and creation.

The ONE thing I could really, really use in a live performance, both as an accompaniment tool and as a backing track compose tool is the ability to select which clips are to play at scene launch; I can't BELIEVE Ableton locked us into launching every frickin' clip in the row when we want to launch a scene. There is a ClyphX workaround (sort of) if you create a duplicate track and use it as your scene launch, but it is very awkward to use and difficult to type, and not flexible at all in real time.

What we need is a simple button on each clip (or a drop down menu by right click, although one should be able to do this in real time) that is a simple "Play clip on scene launch (yes/no)". This would allow us (e.g.) to dedicate specific tracks to rhythm,fills, chord change melodies (for bass and/or melodies), etc.

It is a VERY easy thing to do (a boolean and a few program mods, and a change in icon to indicate whether the clip launches or not - maybe reverse the arrow?); immediately after launch, the clip would return to its current function.

It is hard for me to understand why Ableton has left this functionality out - it is NOT the "stop clip" button which does something entirely different.

Sheesh, I really like Ableton, but why can't you guys provide this simple little tweak?

patrick.olson86
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Re: Select which clips fire on Scene Launch

Post by patrick.olson86 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:16 pm

I don't know if I'm understanding correctly.. you want a delayed play for certain clips? eg - you have a clip that has hi-hats and when you launch the scene you DON'T want the hats to play, but then come right back in the next measure without having to launch another scene?

doc holiday
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Re: Select which clips fire on Scene Launch

Post by doc holiday » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:17 pm

you can remove the stop button from clips leaving an empty clip that doesn't stop that track when it's scene is launched. i think this is as easy as a right click option but I'm not going to open Live atm to check. manual should give more info or someone else perhaps.

Buleriachk
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Re: Select which clips fire on Scene Launch

Post by Buleriachk » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:25 pm

This has nothing, repeat NOTHING to do with my suggestion.
doc holiday wrote:you can remove the stop button from clips leaving an empty clip that doesn't stop that track when it's scene is launched. i think this is as easy as a right click option but I'm not going to open Live atm to check. manual should give more info or someone else perhaps.

Buleriachk
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Re: Select which clips fire on Scene Launch

Post by Buleriachk » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:30 pm

That is correct. But better, I could have a whole track dedicated to Rhythm variations (with bass drum, snare, hihat, etc., etc.), and a second track dedicated to Fill variations (contrasting with the clips in the Rhythm track), and a third track dedicated to Bass sequences in G7 and a fourth track dedicated to bass sequences in C so I could play variations on G7->C live, without launching the Rhythm, Fill, G7 and C clips on Scene Launch.

Set each clip to play once (like playing a guitar in rhythm, or a 12-bar blues with a turnaround.....

Of course, one would have to know what a G7 and a C chord is...........
patrick.olson86 wrote:I don't know if I'm understanding correctly.. you want a delayed play for certain clips? eg - you have a clip that has hi-hats and when you launch the scene you DON'T want the hats to play, but then come right back in the next measure without having to launch another scene?

schlocktober
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Re: Select which clips fire on Scene Launch

Post by schlocktober » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:44 pm

A scene is defined as all of the clips in a row. If you want to something other than play all of the clips in a row, you're not talking about launching a scene. A few suggestions:

1. Just create more scenes that have clips in the various combinations you'll want to launch.

2. Use follow actions and blank clips. You can have a clip in a scene that makes no sound of it's own and uses follow actions to cause the next clip to start playing after a certain duration.

3. Don't ask people for help and then impugn their music theory knowledge. I'm sure you know lots of chords.

Buleriachk
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Re: Select which clips fire on Scene Launch

Post by Buleriachk » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:03 pm

This is a complete waste of precious screen real estate, and is confusing in live performance. I am fully aware of what Ableton (and you) think a scene is; I want to change that definition, since the way it is now is really, REALLY stupid.

One button on a clip would be all it would take to accomplish what I want to do. Changing follow actions in live performance is a ridiculous solution, especially in the heat of battle. (Although I would accept a dropdown choice as a good start.

My way would permit the live keying of chord progressions much like an arranger; the only difference is that sll the fricken clips in the row don't fire when the scene is started. And of course the original functionality is preserved by simply making the "yes" choice the default.

And it is SO stupid that Ableton doesn't have this capability.....

schlocktober wrote:A scene is defined as all of the clips in a row. If you want to something other than play all of the clips in a row, you're not talking about launching a scene. A few suggestions:

1. Just create more scenes that have clips in the various combinations you'll want to launch.

2. Use follow actions and blank clips. You can have a clip in a scene that makes no sound of it's own and uses follow actions to cause the next clip to start playing after a certain duration.

3. Don't ask people for help and then impugn their music theory knowledge. I'm sure you know lots of chords.
Last edited by Buleriachk on Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jrel
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Re: Select which clips fire on Scene Launch

Post by Jrel » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:15 pm

If you don't get an answer here, try heading over Tom Cosm's website and his forums, and ask. He's a Live Genius.

Buleriachk
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Re: Select which clips fire on Scene Launch

Post by Buleriachk » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:16 pm

So am I....:-)
But this issue is NOT Rocket Science.......
Jrel wrote:If you don't get an answer here, try heading over Tom Cosm's website and his forums, and ask. He's a Live Genius.

doc holiday
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Re: Select which clips fire on Scene Launch

Post by doc holiday » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:54 pm

Buleriachk wrote:So am I....:-)
But this issue is NOT Rocket Science.......
Jrel wrote:If you don't get an answer here, try heading over Tom Cosm's website and his forums, and ask. He's a Live Genius.

considering the fact that your initial reply doesn't make a whole lot of sense combined with the fact that you're not very nice when you don't get the answer you want means people probably aren't going to help.

crumhorn
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Re: Select which clips fire on Scene Launch

Post by crumhorn » Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:13 pm

you posted in the wrong forum - it should be in the feature wish list forum -> viewforum.php?f=3

Activate/Deactivate clip might do what you want.
"The banjo is the perfect instrument for the antisocial."

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su
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Re: Select which clips fire on Scene Launch

Post by su » Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:17 pm

A general purpose program designed to flexibly meet the needs of 1000s of musicians creating and performing music in a huge range of musical contexts does not meet my idiosyncratic live performance needs. Therefore, the program should be changed. Getting on a public forum and yelling should do the trick.

:roll:

Buleriachk
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Re: Select which clips fire on Scene Launch

Post by Buleriachk » Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:55 pm

My gut feeling is that most people using Ableton are noise tweakers, and not musicians..... :D :D :D
All they need is a rhythm/bass beat and then they work on their "concert for freight train and sparrow", or garbage can lids, etc....

All I'm asking for is the ability to do a basic jazz comp sheet with chord substitutions live... which I can do on a keyboard (but I miss the ability to stretch octaves like on the guitar), and I miss the abiilty for complex polyphony, not to mention easy, easy pentatonics on the keyboard).....

In a couple of years, noone will even remember what the circle of fifths is....

chapelier fou
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Re: Select which clips fire on Scene Launch

Post by chapelier fou » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:12 pm

I've been asking this since....2009.
Just add exceptions to the rules !!!!!
ability to :
- exclude a clip when launching a scene
- ability for a specific clip to not select the scene when launched.
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Buleriachk
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Re: Select which clips fire on Scene Launch

Post by Buleriachk » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:29 pm

I agree - and keep posting... we GOTTA keep bugging Ableton about this. Not having this function so that one can do chord/rhythm/fill substitutions in a musical progression easily has GOT to be the dumbest omission in DAW history, as far as musicians are concerned.

Again, I love Ableton, but this omission is just really stupid. And it dumbs down Ableton and live performance to musical noise - melody without harmony or vice versa.

The good news: the tools of production are finally in the hands of the workers.
The bad news: the tools of production are finally in the hands of the workers...

And it is SO easy to fix. I wonder if there are any real musicians at Ableton (e.g., someone that could sing (or play) the melody to "Autumn Leaves" in melody while accompanying themselves with chord changes......
chapelier fou wrote:I've been asking this since....2009.
Just add exceptions to the rules !!!!!
ability to :
- exclude a clip when launching a scene
- ability for a specific clip to not select the scene when launched.

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