Trying to get into Ableton.?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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Mozzy31
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Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:56 am

Trying to get into Ableton.?

Post by Mozzy31 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:35 pm

Im trying my best to get into ableton, ive had the demo now a few weeks ..
ive watched a few tutorials and the way to use ableton is a bit differant to what im used to (Im from FL)
all the tutorials tell me i should first use the session window, then the arrangement window..
but i seem to be more comfortable just going straight to the arrangement window, dragging samples and VSTs into it..
What are the disadvantages of this and the advantages of using the session window.?
Cheers in advance!

login
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Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:41 am

Re: Trying to get into Ableton.?

Post by login » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:49 pm

Mozzy31 wrote:Im trying my best to get into ableton, ive had the demo now a few weeks ..
ive watched a few tutorials and the way to use ableton is a bit differant to what im used to (Im from FL)
all the tutorials tell me i should first use the session window, then the arrangement window..
but i seem to be more comfortable just going straight to the arrangement window, dragging samples and VSTs into it..
What are the disadvantages of this and the advantages of using the session window.?
Cheers in advance!

That you are mussing the fun that is using session view. Force yourself to use it so you can really know if you like it or not. If you like more arregement I dont see why change DAw's

BoddAH
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Re: Trying to get into Ableton.?

Post by BoddAH » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:57 pm

Session view allows you to mess with variations and new ideas without ever having to commit to anything. Just mess around, copy a clip and modify it or create a completely new one. Delete it if you don't like it. "Improvise" and mess around with them in real time. Mix and match various clips from different tracks. When you find a sequence that sounds cool just hit record.

You can't do that with a classic sequencer.

turnitto11
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Re: Trying to get into Ableton.?

Post by turnitto11 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:30 pm

I rarely use session view, except for mixing. I too prefer the arrangement view, I like the tradition DAW look, but with Ableton's workflow. I also use Logic Pro, but I've been using that less and less. Only using Logic now when recording a bunch of real instruments because taking different parts from different takes helps get that perfect track when you can't just edit a MIDI not to get it perfect.
MacBook Pro (13", 2.7ghz i7, 16gb, 10.9), Suite 9

cmockett
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Re: Trying to get into Ableton.?

Post by cmockett » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:22 pm

ive heard more than one producer say, forget session view completely youll get more finished songs strictly in arrangement...

that said its all about what works for people, some days improvising in session view wont yield anything worthwhile, other days i stumble upon a gem of an idea that i otherwise wouldve never come up with...

infernal.machine
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Re: Trying to get into Ableton.?

Post by infernal.machine » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:30 pm

If you like making loops or are performing finished tracks live, use session.

If you like to produce, use arrangment.

Martin Gifford
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Re: Trying to get into Ableton.?

Post by Martin Gifford » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:14 am

I'd like see some more videos that really shine a light on the potential of Session view for creating song ideas. I haven't seen many good ones, but I sense the possibility is there. I will look at that Make Music with Ableton Live video for a start.

What I've noticed is that the new browser in v9 makes me more inclined to use session view. i can hear previews of the instruments and I am more likely to try out pre-made clips because there's a menu item for clips. I understand more experienced users would hate the browser, but newbies are much more likely to experiment and learn with the new browser.

schullermusik
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Re: Trying to get into Ableton.?

Post by schullermusik » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:52 am

I've not new to Live, and I like the browser. With Suite and a couple of third party packs, it's really handy to preview sounds with one click.

[art]
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Re: Trying to get into Ableton.?

Post by [art] » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:18 am

It's definitely possible to flesh out full compositions with session, you just have to be really concerted with copying and evolving your clips down the scene rows. I'm guilty of being pretty lazy with this - I often end up with one totally killer banging scene that goes for 8 or 16 bars or whatever... The hard part is then extending that out either side for intro/outro etc. I think what happens for me is I make a bunch of different live sets, until I get one that has that one killer 16 bar scene. Then I know I can start fleshing out in either direction...

102455
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Re: Trying to get into Ableton.?

Post by 102455 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:01 pm

I think the views should be renamed "clip view" and "DAW view" (or "full view") because as it is, I can never remember which view is which!

To my ears, the current names seem reversed. "Arrangement view" sounds as if it's for taking small sections and working out how they fit (arranging them) and "session view" sounds like it's for the completed article - the view of the whole thing.

Mozzy31
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Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:56 am

Re: Trying to get into Ableton.?

Post by Mozzy31 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:06 pm

Thanks for the help and replies
i certainly opened a can of worms on this ..
and realised im not the only one that just goes straight to arrangement view!
Cheers!

tintala
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Re: Trying to get into Ableton.?

Post by tintala » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:49 pm

Thephatconductor AKA ILL GATES, uses the session view to build his sounds and makes clips to then be recorded in AV. If you haven't seen his free workshop video I suggest you take a look, perhaps then you might see the advantages.

Martin Gifford
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Re: Trying to get into Ableton.?

Post by Martin Gifford » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:53 pm

tintala wrote:Thephatconductor AKA ILL GATES, uses the session view to build his sounds and makes clips to then be recorded in AV. If you haven't seen his free workshop video I suggest you take a look, perhaps then you might see the advantages.
I can't find Ill Gates session view video. I see videos on other things like psychology and templates, but not something about the advantages of session view.

pablorotter
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Re: Trying to get into Ableton.?

Post by pablorotter » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:53 am

[art] wrote:It's definitely possible to flesh out full compositions with session, you just have to be really concerted with copying and evolving your clips down the scene rows. I'm guilty of being pretty lazy with this - I often end up with one totally killer banging scene that goes for 8 or 16 bars or whatever... The hard part is then extending that out either side for intro/outro etc. I think what happens for me is I make a bunch of different live sets, until I get one that has that one killer 16 bar scene. Then I know I can start fleshing out in either direction...
Keep working on that song, add a chorus. Then start working in arrangement view, edit the drum fill going into the choruses. Make the second chorus louder.

Go back into session write an outro and intro, through them into arrangement and you are done.

I too had a very hard time using arrangement, Lives arrangement is ugly and unintuitive IMHO. whereas in session in 30 minutes I'll have an intro, verse, chorus, 2nd chorus, breakdown, outro, with full instrumentation.

My friends who are good with arrange view have finally forced me to get the tracks laid out in arrangement which was a big stumbling block in completing my work, true to its name arrangement view allowed me to complete songs instead of having tons of sick loops with no musical ebb and flow.

As has been said whatever works...but I like intuitive software and spent probably two years entirely in session view (arranging in cubase). Arrangement is a must for making your song more dynamic and not just loops.

With Lives crappy 64 bit support I actually start in Cubase 64 so i don't have to use uninspiring VSTs to save RAM, then bring those midi tracks into live's session a clips,
flesh out the song in session, arrange in arrange view, then bounce back to cubase for final mixing.

Live is fine for the final mix, I do find a different sound quality mixing in cubase and the final stereo mix always sounds better to me.

Whatever your process I highly recommend exporting your track as a .wav without normalization and use something as simple as audacity to normalize if needed and to produce any lossy versions. (mp3).

Happy music making to everybody, get off the boards, get over your gear and USE IT!!!! (a refrain I need to remind myself).

-pAugustus

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