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 Post subject: Re: Should I use 44.1kHz or 88.2kHz sampling rate?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:43 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:42 am
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I am not an expert or an audio engineer / theoretician

But I can hear a definite difference between files rendered with Live / my soundcard set at 44.1 v 88.2

Especially when said file involves lots of reverb with lots of top end. Then the difference is very clear and perceptible - the 88.2 file has much more 'air' and 'sparkle;' it is not a subtle difference at all but marked and in your face.

The difference remains when you compress the sound file to a 320 KB MP3. The two renders still sound very different.

Above 88.2 I cannae hear no difference. I have tried sampling at 96, 176 and 192 and the only result was lots more horrible drop-outs and stuttering when Live is working.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I use 44.1kHz or 88.2kHz sampling rate?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:35 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:49 pm
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Location: Austin, TX
quiet_ou wrote:
Then the difference is very clear and perceptible - the 88.2 file has much more 'air' and 'sparkle;' it is not a subtle difference at all but marked and in your face.



You must have impressive monitors and ears. What kind of monitors are you using?

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 Post subject: Re: Should I use 44.1kHz or 88.2kHz sampling rate?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:13 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm
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There are exactly 23 people on the planet who have both the ears and equipment that could benefit from this.

None of them listen to your music.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I use 44.1kHz or 88.2kHz sampling rate?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:46 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:54 pm
Posts: 520
that's strange, since according to the valhalladsp guy, most of the 'famous' reverbs have frequency responses well below 20K.
i am guessing, but don't know for sure, that you have some plugin that isn't scaling frequencies with SR correctly.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I use 44.1kHz or 88.2kHz sampling rate?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:51 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:42 am
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miekwave wrote:
quiet_ou wrote:
Then the difference is very clear and perceptible - the 88.2 file has much more 'air' and 'sparkle;' it is not a subtle difference at all but marked and in your face.



You must have impressive monitors and ears. What kind of monitors are you using?


Just KRKs, Rokit 6. Nothing special. And my ears are just standard issue.

Let me make clear, usually the difference is not that marked. But a simple Collision rack with lots of treble, plus lots of feedbacked reverb (I think I was using either Ambience or Abes's own reverb) and anyone could hear the difference.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I use 44.1kHz or 88.2kHz sampling rate?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:08 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm
Posts: 23565
Location: SF, CA
sure, and you play poker with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny every Thursday night.

there's no arguing with the guy, you can't prove a negative.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I use 44.1kHz or 88.2kHz sampling rate?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:29 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:42 am
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You seem to be saying I am talking nonsense. I dunno, I am just telling you what I found.

I posted the results on this forum a while back.

If can be bothered, I will try again & repost :)

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 Post subject: Re: Should I use 44.1kHz or 88.2kHz sampling rate?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:44 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:42 am
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Location: Hoerikwaggo's sunset side...
Tone Deft wrote:
sure, and you play poker with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny every Thursday night.

there's no arguing with the guy, you can't prove a negative.



Well, tell me I am imagining things:

Here's a section rendered at 44.1

https://soundcloud.com/re-dreams-workshop/2012-08-17-sub-bass-wobble-at


here's the very same section rendered at 88.2

https://soundcloud.com/re-dreams-workshop/2012-08-17-sub-bass-wobble

I'm pretty sure I can hear a difference.


theophilus wrote:
that's strange, since according to the valhalladsp guy, most of the 'famous' reverbs have frequency responses well below 20K.
i am guessing, but don't know for sure, that you have some plugin that isn't scaling frequencies with SR correctly.



Could be. I am using Ambience, which is a free reverb plugin. I will check if I get the same difference with Live's own reverb unit

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 Post subject: Re: Should I use 44.1kHz or 88.2kHz sampling rate?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:53 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:13 am
Posts: 333
If the samplerate is the only difference between those two files, then yes there is a huge difference and the 88.2 sounds much clearer. I personally use 88.2 because my computer can handle it, and I sometimes am able to hear a difference especially with reverb and other spatial effects.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I use 44.1kHz or 88.2kHz sampling rate?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:57 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:42 am
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Location: Hoerikwaggo's sunset side...
Well at least I am not imagining it, as Tone Deft seems to imply :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Should I use 44.1kHz or 88.2kHz sampling rate?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:03 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm
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Location: SF, CA
The Finn wrote:
Well at least I am not imagining it, as Tone Deft seems to imply :roll:

if it was common knowledge that there is an obvious difference you wouldn't have to dig for an answer. common sense. :roll:

if you have to ask you're new to this stuff and are still figuring the basics out. nothing wrong with that.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I use 44.1kHz or 88.2kHz sampling rate?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:23 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:42 am
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8) no sweat. Pity about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny though, I will miss them

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 Post subject: Re: Should I use 44.1kHz or 88.2kHz sampling rate?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:27 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm
Posts: 23565
Location: SF, CA
keep searching and asking questions, the flip side is believing bad advice.

sorry, tired from a bike ride.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I use 44.1kHz or 88.2kHz sampling rate?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:13 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:42 am
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Location: Hoerikwaggo's sunset side...
Tone Deft wrote:
the flip side is believing bad advice.

.



... speaking of which, what's the *good* advice on dithering when doing a mix down?

I hear a lot about dithering being a bad idea; then again if I believe that Monty Montgomery video on the whole 192 saga, dithering is not a problem. What do you think?

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 Post subject: Re: Should I use 44.1kHz or 88.2kHz sampling rate?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:20 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm
Posts: 23565
Location: SF, CA
honestly, I'd read up in my Bob Katz to give you the proper advice. Tarekith's guides probably cover that. I'm less of a producer and more of a guy that starts songs and gets bored with them. there are times you do want to dither, there are some funky types of dithering too, Bob Katz's book Mastering Audio talks about them. it can be some freaky siht.

with Live there are only a few dithering options, I'd try them all and see what happens.

for now I have the wife staring at me waiting to go to lunch. gotta go...

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