Why I think Lives Groove quantise is wrong (again)

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
ansolas
Posts: 379
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:01 pm
Location: Earth ~ Europe ~ Germany ~ Cuxheaven

Re: Why I think Lives Groove quantise is wrong (again)

Post by ansolas » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:41 pm

The Presonus StudioOne Grid also reflects the current Quantisation / Swing:

Image

It even updates in realtime when moving the controls, no crappy commit needed

mr.ergonomics
Posts: 915
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:12 am

Re: Why I think Lives Groove quantise is wrong (again)

Post by mr.ergonomics » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:07 pm

Just a gentle push to put this topic on the table again. :roll:

I still have to export midi clips in special cases to Cubase to groove quantize them and import them again in Live since 7 years now! When you also think that the note length parameter is missing maybe write this too Ableton too as a request to get some attention for this problem.


What was the problem again? In a nut shell, when you quantize note to a groove the note length change too. That means that you can't e.g. just apply a groove to you bass to get the micro timing from the note start right, because the note length change too. This is not a problem in most DAWs with groove quantize, because they have a length parameter.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Why I think Lives Groove quantise is wrong (again)

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:12 pm

mr.ergonomics wrote:Just a gentle push to put this topic on the table again. :roll:

I still have to export midi clips in special cases to Cubase to groove quantize them and import them again in Live since 7 years now! When you also think that the note length parameter is missing maybe write this too Ableton too as a request to get some attention for this problem.


What was the problem again? In a nut shell, when you quantize note to a groove the note length change too. That means that you can't e.g. just apply a groove to you bass to get the micro timing from the note start right, because the note length change too. This is not a problem in most DAWs with groove quantize, because they have a length parameter.
I think the reason for this situation is that even the group within the Live design team that implemented grooves, are discontent with how it turned out and for ill-advised reasons some other internal group would seem to think that Grooves are the same thing as swing (as do many others). Which it isn't.

Some faction within Ableton would appear to be — or have been — working against grooves as an idea. The end result being this function is lesser than what it could be, as great as it actually is. Or maybe people just moved on to other functions, I'm not sure.

For one thing, and is why I keep using grooves, is that if you have eight extracted bars in your groove, that means eight bars can all be different compared to each other. Typically, I believe anyway, Swing is the same in each bar. The difference in the actual result is huge. Both are arguably good.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Make some music!

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Why I think Lives Groove quantise is wrong (again)

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:15 pm

Make some music!

Post Reply