All times are UTC

 
 



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:07 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:59 am
Posts: 9
Live has been struggling to play a moderate sized project (60 tracks) in my i7 2600K/20GB ram DAW with RME Babyface, which used to run 120+ tracks in Reaper without breaking a sweat at 256 samples. It is notable that this is my first serious project in Live after moving away from Reaper. This project literally has 3 VSTis - 1 omnisphere, 1 Kontakt, 1 EW Play. The rest are audio effects on audio tracks and sends, mostly Live's effects.
Also I've moved the project to a fresh 64-GB SSD to remove disk streaming concerns.

With all the stuttering I tried turning off Multicore support and lo-and-behold it actually got rid of a lot of the audio glitches. THe CPU now runs at 65-70% as opposed to 45% but the performance seems noticeably improved.

What should I gather from this? Is Ableton poorly optimized for multi-core support? Any solution I can try? I've played way bigger projects in Reaper without any glitches, so it can't be the computer. In fact as far as I can remember this is the first time I'm experiencing performance related problems in this computer. HELP!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:35 pm 

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:38 am
Posts: 1518
I'm not a complete expert in this area but as I understand with multi-core usage is your CPU there has 4 processors with 2 "cores" per processor. each track in Live will be designated to a processor/core so if you have lets say omnisphere with all 8 layers running these will all run within a single core (with multi-core enabled) or within a processor (without it enabled).

You have a total CPU power divided up over all this so having too much in a single track can kill things more than spreading it over more tracks.

All 3 of the devices you have listed are monsters and I use all these also. The first thing I have had to learn to do is NOT use too many layers in a single instance. If you use EW for strings for instance, don't load an entire orchestra section into one instance, use 4 instances instead. It helps spread the load.

I haven't used Reaper but from what I hear they have a pretty good system for handling CPU cycles and audio. You never can guarantee any DAW will perform the same for the same elements.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:59 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am
Posts: 3056
not quite. it is one processor with four cores (quad-core). each of these four physical cores can run two threads, which in total is like having 8 virtual cores.

the thing is having multiple cores means running processes in parallel, which involves a whole lot of extra synchronisation, and audio processing is very unforgiving.

it might be a bug in Live, or it might be related to how the computer is configured.

the comparison between Live and other DAWs comes up all the time, and the bottom line is that it is not reasonable to expect Live to perform on par with an efficient linear DAW. the only valid comparison is with Bitwig Studio.

_________________
smutek wrote:
For an ever lasting sound ... turn sustain, decay and release all the way up and lay a brick on your keyboard. You also want to leave your computer on for this. Don't move the brick.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:13 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:03 pm
Posts: 285
If multi-core support = off, does Live still use multiple cores and not virtual cores?

_________________
BROWSE:
Live 8. All hierarchy browser functions. Browse anywhere, play all audio instantly.
Live 9. Click Import. Browse & select maps. Wait.. Select folder in Places. Play any audio that is scanned and visible. Not visible? Wait some more..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:31 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am
Posts: 3056
zeepster wrote:
If multi-core support = off, does Live still use multiple cores and not virtual cores?


no, only a single thread is used.

it's pretty easy to test. fire up your system's CPU monitor and create a few processor hungry tracks, and toggle multicore support on and off.

_________________
smutek wrote:
For an ever lasting sound ... turn sustain, decay and release all the way up and lay a brick on your keyboard. You also want to leave your computer on for this. Don't move the brick.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:38 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:03 pm
Posts: 285
Ah of course.
Thanks for explaining it.

_________________
BROWSE:
Live 8. All hierarchy browser functions. Browse anywhere, play all audio instantly.
Live 9. Click Import. Browse & select maps. Wait.. Select folder in Places. Play any audio that is scanned and visible. Not visible? Wait some more..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:30 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 3:44 pm
Posts: 834
Location: antwerp, be
try shuffling tracks. Live in multimode uses one 'processor' per track. With two processors, that would mean putting heavy devices on track 1 and 3 and lighter devices on 2 and 4 will make processor 1 work much harder. Swapping 2 and 3 will even things out. iirc...

_________________
andy

2.5G C2D MBP (2008), 4G RAM, OSX 10.6.8, Live 9.1.6, RME Fireface 800


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:05 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 2548
borg wrote:
try shuffling tracks. Live in multimode uses one 'processor' per track. With two processors, that would mean putting heavy devices on track 1 and 3 and lighter devices on 2 and 4 will make processor 1 work much harder. Swapping 2 and 3 will even things out. iirc...


How do you reckon this to be working? Most songs have 15 to 30 tracks at least. There's no shuffling to be done there, right?

_________________
Macbook Pro, Ableton Live 9.5, RME Babyface, Ableton Push, NI Komplete 9, KRK Rokit 5
Enhanced Push community mapping for native Live devices


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:44 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 3:44 pm
Posts: 834
Location: antwerp, be
well... in the case of two processors:

track 1: plugins consume 45% of CPU 1
track 2: plugins consume 5% of CPU 2
track 3: plugins consume 45% of CPU 1
track 4: plugins consume 10% of CPU 2
this results in a CPU 1 load of 90% and CPU 2 load of 15%

if you move track 2 behind track 3 (so 2 becomes 3, and 3 becomes 2) CPU 1 load becomes 50% and CPU 2 load will be 55%.
something to consider if your hitting ceilings.

_________________
andy

2.5G C2D MBP (2008), 4G RAM, OSX 10.6.8, Live 9.1.6, RME Fireface 800


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:00 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am
Posts: 3056
borg wrote:
well... in the case of two processors:

you make a good point, but it's confusing things a bit using the term 'processors' here. i think what you are talking about is paying attention to which virtual cores are being used, to better spread the load across the physical cores...

_________________
smutek wrote:
For an ever lasting sound ... turn sustain, decay and release all the way up and lay a brick on your keyboard. You also want to leave your computer on for this. Don't move the brick.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:09 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 3:44 pm
Posts: 834
Location: antwerp, be
ah, yes, I realized after posting 'core' would have been more appropriate, or better, correct... my bad

_________________
andy

2.5G C2D MBP (2008), 4G RAM, OSX 10.6.8, Live 9.1.6, RME Fireface 800


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:34 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:59 am
Posts: 9
borg wrote:
well... in the case of two processors:

track 1: plugins consume 45% of CPU 1
track 2: plugins consume 5% of CPU 2
track 3: plugins consume 45% of CPU 1
track 4: plugins consume 10% of CPU 2
this results in a CPU 1 load of 90% and CPU 2 load of 15%

if you move track 2 behind track 3 (so 2 becomes 3, and 3 becomes 2) CPU 1 load becomes 50% and CPU 2 load will be 55%.
something to consider if your hitting ceilings.


I have core parking disabled and I view my cores in the task manager - I don't see this being the case. The load looks pretty evenly distributed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:49 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am
Posts: 3056
keyman_sam wrote:
With all the stuttering I tried turning off Multicore support and lo-and-behold it actually got rid of a lot of the audio glitches. THe CPU now runs at 65-70% as opposed to 45% but the performance seems noticeably improved.


if you are still getting some glitches running on one core then you cannot infer that it is the multicore support that is causing the problems, merely that running in multicore mode is aggravating the issue, which is not in itself surprising.

_________________
smutek wrote:
For an ever lasting sound ... turn sustain, decay and release all the way up and lay a brick on your keyboard. You also want to leave your computer on for this. Don't move the brick.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:30 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:46 am
Posts: 1649
when will we get up-to-date multicore support like other &200+ DAWs? :cry:

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:38 pm 

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:38 am
Posts: 427
live can only assign one of the 4 cores to a single track....so if you have tons of stuff on one track....and you only have one track in your project, that could actually max it out. then if you have 4 tracks with tons of stuff...it will just be the same but multiplied...but if you have 4 tracks with not much stuff.....compared to a single track with tons of stuff...then you will probably have less cpu usage

so the cpu usage is only as good as the one core can handle...but you can handle 4x that amount because of the 4 cores. but each one is exclusive

_________________
(((O_O)))


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC

 
 

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group