Live 9 new Mono sequencer - not recalling correct sequences

[maky355]

What a bad issue. Live 9 mono sequencer, set to 32 steps i created such a nice sequence, saved it yet on project reload it is totally, i mean totally not the same. Pitch is different totally. I tried and i can recreate it every single time. Windows, live 9 demo 32 bit..

Yes i double checked everything, yes i hit save but when i reload project it is not same sequence..

[JuanSOLO]

The Mono Sequencer is cool, but dont rely on it %100.
There are so many things connected in the patching that it can produce unexpected results.
The conform to scale, and the randomize is hooked up in a way that makes it easy to F everything up.

That said, I treat the MonoSequencer as a sketch pad.
I put the MonoSequencer on it's own track with nothing else.
I route that track to what ever track has the instrument on it I want to sequence.
Once I have something I like, I record the sequence into a clip, and save it for good.

make since?

[maky355]

Yes that's fine but then it does defeat it's purpose. It should be easy and stable.

Anyway is there some way to build some DRAG SEQUENCE to midi clip or something so we don't have to set up all that routing or recording stuff. There is a good thing in cubase which is called "merge MIDI in loop" which is basically rendering all cubase MIDI plugins in to separate midi clip. Something in live or some kind of DRAG SEQUENCE TO MIDI CLIP would be nice.

But anyway or other that mono sequencer should work. Is it to much to expect it to work as it is advertised and supposed to work? You guys can laugh but i actually started demo it after i saw several mono sequencer videos. It is great way to do sequences but very bad not to have option to save sequences per project...Very very bad..

[Not_Elba]

Anyway is there some way to build some DRAG SEQUENCE to midi clip or something so we don't have to set up all that routing or recording stuff

The mono sequencer is much better IMO than the Matrix pattern sequencer in Reason, but it lacks a proper function to copy a pattern to a midi track directly. I can route it to a midi track and record a pattern, but it`s not as comfortable.
Or did I overlook something ?
Since it`s a max4life device, it should be possible to add such a function ?!?

[JuanSOLO]

What are you guys whinning about? Part of the beauty of Live is routing midi.
It's stupid simple.
Put the MonoSequencer on its own midi track
In the midi out settings of that track, route it to the track you with the instrument you want to sequence
Once you have a sequence you like, record it in a clip that the instrument is on.

Once the routing is done, this is SO easy. The routing is easy too.
I have it set up like this in a live performance rig, works great.

That said, the MonoSequencer handles "presets" in a strange way, trust me don't rely on it.
Keep in mind, these M4L devices are not built by Ableton.
They are built by users like you and me, not sure how it becomes a part of an official "Live pack"
but make no mistake, many of these devices are just built by guys who love to build, not Ableton.

Personally I have no issues with the MonoSequencer.
I even modified the patch so my APC40 controls it, and it sends 4 different CC sequences too.
If you need help tailoring it to your needs I can help within the limitations of M4L and my knowledge of that.
You will not be able to "drag" a sequence to a clip, just not possible.
However routing and recording the sequence to a clip should suffice.

[Not_Elba]

That`s not the issue. I already wrote that I know how to work around that with routing. Yes it`s easy, but it is a workaround for something that should be a standard function for such devices, sorry. I want to just copy the pattern instantely, without recording the stuff.
It`s way more comfortable in my opinion. One click and done.

What are the limitations of Max ?
If it`s possible with Max to have access to the temporary parameters and data of a device and access to the track layer (is there something like a Clip class/object?), it should be possible to do something like that, no ?
Drag&Drop is not necessary, just copying is sufficient.

[maky355]

What are you guys whinning about? Part of the beauty of Live is routing midi.
It's stupid simple.
Put the MonoSequencer on its own midi track
In the midi out settings of that track, route it to the track you with the instrument you want to sequence
Once you have a sequence you like, record it in a clip that the instrument is on.

Once the routing is done, this is SO easy. The routing is easy too.
I have it set up like this in a live performance rig, works great.

That said, the MonoSequencer handles "presets" in a strange way, trust me don't rely on it.
Keep in mind, these M4L devices are not built by Ableton.
They are built by users like you and me, not sure how it becomes a part of an official "Live pack"
but make no mistake, many of these devices are just built by guys who love to build, not Ableton.

Personally I have no issues with the MonoSequencer.
I even modified the patch so my APC40 controls it, and it sends 4 different CC sequences too.
If you need help tailoring it to your needs I can help within the limitations of M4L and my knowledge of that.
You will not be able to "drag" a sequence to a clip, just not possible.
However routing and recording the sequence to a clip should suffice.

I can't grasp are you serious or not. Look it is not a problem to route and record but it's a workflow thing. More clicks and all that stuff. If you can't understand that people are different and that not all people do things in the same way you do then we might stop this conversation right now. And keep in mind that not all of us are experienced with M4L modifications etc.

I am not whining here. And as a user i DO NOT CARE who build Mono Sequencer.

All i know is that they advertised it in promo video, sure i liked Live for other things as well but i liked that sequencer SPECIFICALLY. Given that there are tutorial video series at Cylcing74 i am guessing that they - people which created M4L that they created it. But even so, let us say that MonoSequencer is product of an user and by some miracle it is added and advertised as a selling point in Live9(which would be risky super stupid thing from Abe staff). But even so - IT IS NOT WORKING !!

There are no any warnings of such, no one ever mentioned that there is a cool sequencer in Ableton but hey..you should not rely on it ?!? What the heck ?? I am creating various sequences and after i reload project they are not there. Is that mentioned somewhere in the manual? No it is not...I have not seen anything similar in other programs. Cubase step sequencer save patterns with project, Reason save them, FL Studio save..What is so weird why is it so hard to expect Live to save pattern in year 2013 ??

And as it is been said, quite a lot of other programs have something as "copy pattern/sequence to MIDI track". If something like that is here then this issue would be less dominant.

However it is an issue which need to be fixed or there should be warning about it.

Do not rely on it is not advice at all

edit: it's definitely a but since it seems that it is recalling somewhat correct sequences if one is not using more then 16 steps..It happens only with 32 step i think..

[Hielo Patagonia Sounds]

If you want to try this one, send me a PM.


hps-octane step sequencer v0.92 by hpsounds, on Flickr

It still a beta version but it's working now pretty well and the preset's functionalities are working like a charm ! BTW, I'm still on Live 8 and Max/MSP 5.1.

More informations here : http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=67544

Hédi K.

[JuanSOLO]

First off, I didnt mean to piss you guys off, just trying to help.
To help, I need specifics.

I want to just copy the pattern instantely, without recording the stuff.

can you elaborate?
what happens after you "copy the pattern," I assume you paste it somewhere? Where would you want to store it, or what process "step by step" is not working.

I realize the copy and patste does not paste the correct step count, i.e. if your trying to copy 32 steps, it does not paste 32 steps, it caps off at 16 steps however the information is there pitch duration velocity etc, it's the step size that does not 'paste' correctly.
That can be fixed.

What are the limitations of Max ?
If it`s possible with Max to have access to the temporary parameters and data of a device and access to the track layer (is there something like a Clip class/object?), it should be possible to do something like that, no ?
Drag&Drop is not necessary, just copying is sufficient.

I was saying limitations of Max in this case, would be dragging from the sequencer, and dropping to a clip.
However there are limitations of this particular device.
For example if your on Pattern 3, you cannot access or "copy" the information in Pattern 1 and paste it to Pattern 5.
You can only copy information of the pattern that is currently selected.
I know this has little to do with what your asking, but for me I was trying to modify this part of the patch, only to realize this patch will NEVER do that.
It's like the person who built it had an idea the wanted to try, they saw it all the way through, but in the end Pattern copy and paste can be flaky.
Somethings can be fixed, others cannot.

Not sure what you mean by "possible with Max to have access to the temporary parameters and data of a device and access to the track layer (is there something like a Clip class/object?)"
Elaborate, give me a play by play scenario of what you are wanting to accomplish here, maybe I can help you get it there.

I can't grasp are you serious or not. Look it is not a problem to route and record but it's a workflow thing. More clicks and all that stuff.

I'm very serious about helping people here, I didnt mean for the "whining" comment to have such an impact.
I am trying to point to a workaround, it involves a set up process yes (multiple clicks), but once thats done, it is minimal clicking from there and it's built in your set.

All i know is that they advertised it in promo video, sure i liked Live for other things as well but i liked that sequencer SPECIFICALLY. Given that there are tutorial video series at Cylcing74 i am guessing that they - people which created M4L that they created it. But even so, let us say that MonoSequencer is product of an user and by some miracle it is added and advertised as a selling point in Live9(which would be risky super stupid thing from Abe staff).

The MonoSequencer is not built by Ableton or Cycling74, it is built by a person who is very good with Max and well known stuff like that.
Part of the rub of this whole max for live thing, officially promoted, unofficially supported.

I am creating various sequences and after i reload project they are not there.

I am not having this problem, however I realize you are, and I can only guess this has something to do with something triggering different results when re-loading your set.
For example, the MonoSequencer responds to incoming midi. If CC is highlighted maybe this is causing unwanted results.
If something is MIDI MAP'd to randomize or conform to scale, that may be causing it.
If your "Track IN" is receiving ALL IN's on ALL Channels, this could be causing strange results.
I know that if I turn my SlimPhatty off then on, while the MonoSequencer is receiving midi from ALL Ins, it will trigger the device to do weird shit.

And as it is been said, quite a lot of other programs have something as "copy pattern/sequence to MIDI track".

If you mean, you want a button on the MonoSequencer that you press and it creates a MidiTrack & clip, or even just a clip out of the sequence,
that is not going to be possible with this device, not without completely rebuilding how it saves "Pattern" data within the device.


Hielo Patagonia Sounds is offering a different device that may work better.
It definitely uses a different way to "store" pattern data, it uses the 'preset object,' the box with the little round buttons in it.
Something like this might be a more efficient way to store pattern data within the MonoSequencer, however it would mean rebuilding and trouble shooting a lot of stuff.

I dont know why the builder of the MonoSequencer chose to store and recall patterns the way he did, but he did, and it's not working perfectly.

If it's simply the issue of it not pasting 32step size, thats an easy fix I think,
If it's not reloading proper values in each sequencer thats something else, and trouble shooting it requires a play by play of what your doing in your set.

This is what I am preposing.
set up:
2 Midi Tracks
One has the MonoSequencer on it, the other has your synth plug, OR external instrument.
The MonoSeq track is routed to the Synth Track, sub menu set to 'Track IN'
Make sure the MonoSeq tracks "Midi FROM' is set to something specific. For example, from your keyboard controller on a specific channel, like 'Novation ReMote' on Channel 14.

once the set up is complete, then you can dial in sequences on the MonoSequencer, when you get something you like record a clip in the SYNTH track.
1 click to arm, 1 click to start recording clip, 1 click to stop recording clip.

In this image you see a screen shot of the piano roll/clip information on the synth track. It shows that the pitch data and velocity data are recorded.

[Hielo Patagonia Sounds]

I've read somewhere on the internet that the Mono Sequencer was developed by Stretta (Matthew Davidson), who is known to know Max4Live very well. I'm really surprised that it's not recalling the correct sequences.



Maybe try to contact him ?

Recording the MIDI output of the sequencer is "just" a work around IMHO. The nice stuff in this kind of sequencer is the different length of each sequence parameters and some semi-random functions : that way you will have very "organic" sequences with an ever changing quality in it (that the main reason I've wrote my own m4l step sequencer) .

Isn't this software called "Live" and not "Digital Tape Recorder" ?

Hédi K.

[Not_Elba]

Not sure what you mean by "possible with Max to have access to the temporary parameters and data of a device and access to the track layer (is there something like a Clip class/object?)"
Elaborate, give me a play by play scenario of what you are wanting to accomplish here, maybe I can help you get it there.

Sorry if I wasn`t clear.
Keep in mind I don`t know Max and haven`t worked with it (yet).
What I mean is if you have access to the data you stored. All the informations and parameters you`ve set. Pitch, Duration, Octave, velocity, frames etc. If you have, you should be able to generate a clip object (as I said IF it is possible with Max to access this layer level in Ableton) with these parameters, which is excactly what I want.

Watching this octane step sequencer I think Max can read xml files, so it should be possible to write and read all information you need.


@ Hédi
Looks impressive!

[JuanSOLO]

So, how would you invision using that?
Like a button that makes a midi clip out of the stored data?
Or do you want this stored in the MonoSequencer in a preset object like this thing in Hielo's device.


preset objects store and recall parameter per little button, the also allow you to "write/save" preset files that you name to your hard drive.
And they can be recalled or 'read' back into the device.

The thing about the MonoSequencer is that it does not save data within the device using a preset object.
It is something that would require quit a bit of work, it could be done, but it might be better to find another device already doing that, like Hielo's.
The MonoSequencer uses a different technique with 'dict' (dictionary) objects, offering the user no way to write the data to a file.

Stretta is the builder, he has a blog/website and if you contact him he might help. I cant speak for him, but I have written him and got a few questions answered.
I would guess, he might be interested in hearing about bugs that could be fixed, such as the copy/paste not working above 16 steps.

[Hielo Patagonia Sounds]

For a step sequencer with drag-and-drop sequence into a MIDI clip capability, you should have a look at Sugar Bytes Thesis VST plug-in.



Hédi K.

[Not_Elba]

Thanks for the info guys!

[maky355]

Juansolo thanks for your help. I do not have anything re triggering MonoSequencer. I can load empty Live 9 template, load any simple instrument, load new MonoSequencer, 32 steps, make sequences or drop few random until you like, remember sequence, save and reopen project. Sequence is not there anymore.

I repeat it seems only when 32 steps are used.

Does anyone know how can i contact that person you guys are talking about. That which did MonoSequencer..

Also again thanks for anyone help. I was a bit hard (because i was annoyed by seq..) so i want to apologize to everyone

edit: btw i do know for Thesys sequencer it is great but doesn't suit my workflow and i do not want to order more plugins. However it really does have that great drop to MIDI button..but anyway MonoSequencer in Ableton is exactly what i need. Only working one.