selfmade live visuals - which programs are out there?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
#1thelark
Posts: 985
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:06 pm

selfmade live visuals - which programs are out there?

Post by #1thelark » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:03 am

Hi I just rediscovered the joy of working with vector-based programs, i.e. Illustrator.
I know processing is able to do vector-based animations and stuff, but at least the stuff i've seen so far is not as easy to use as Illustrator.
Is there a software with nice workflow that can be used for live (svg)-visuals and does not require profound programming skills?

Cheers
Last edited by #1thelark on Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

#1thelark
Posts: 985
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:06 pm

Re: vector-based live visuals - which programs are out there?

Post by #1thelark » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:55 pm

bump, anyone?

bigbadotis
Posts: 836
Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 10:31 pm
Location: rochester, ny
Contact:

Re: vector-based live visuals - which programs are out there?

Post by bigbadotis » Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:11 pm

Flash, I guess. Flash has owned that market for a long time...

All the other examples I can think of off the top of my head are either 3d (which it doesn't sound like you want, although it's a little unclear) or involve coding...

#1thelark
Posts: 985
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:06 pm

Re: vector-based live visuals - which programs are out there?

Post by #1thelark » Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:02 pm

Hmm Flash...I will have a look into it.

But I'm still open to explore alternatives, if you guys come up with sth. else...


EDIT: I've looked into flash but I can't seem to find many options to integrate midi for live controlling of animations...
Can anyone give me a hint? I have found some stuff from 2005 but that code ain't available anymore.

bigbadotis
Posts: 836
Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 10:31 pm
Location: rochester, ny
Contact:

Re: vector-based live visuals - which programs are out there?

Post by bigbadotis » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:40 pm

Might be easier to use OSC with Flash and use some other program to convert from MIDI to OSC.

https://github.com/benchun/flosc

I can't think of anyway to avoid coding if you want your animations to respond to MIDI (or OSC) unless you get some type of dedicated VJ environment... hopefully someone else has some ideas.

#1thelark
Posts: 985
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:06 pm

Re: selfmade live visuals - which programs are out there?

Post by #1thelark » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:41 am

So I looked around some more... I am on a PC and can use processing, Max, Flash, and hopefully some others that you can tell me...

Can anyone give me a hint which software is best for live visuals in terms of gui and workflow?
I want quick results and a proper gui.

Thanks!

oddstep
Posts: 1732
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:47 pm
Location: Plymouth the great

Re: selfmade live visuals - which programs are out there?

Post by oddstep » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:10 pm

Max/Jitter or processing. max for live makes it slightly easier to use max than processing. its still coding tho'. a completely different approach would be to have visuals stored in the arrangement view and use midi mapped cue triggers to perform the video.

nemoy
Posts: 380
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:45 pm
Contact:

Re: selfmade live visuals - which programs are out there?

Post by nemoy » Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:04 pm

when you're on a pc, you might wanna have a look at vvvv
cool thing! it's a bit like a max kind of programming with a gui.
and it's free, afaik.

rikhyray
Posts: 3644
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:13 pm
Contact:

Re: selfmade live visuals - which programs are out there?

Post by rikhyray » Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:33 pm

Resolume is the best at the moment, Arkaos is usable, vvvv - is more for fixed installations then live and anyway unreliable, good for nerds with too much time and nothing better to do. Ignore suggestion about Flash, obsolete and was never really good for live visuals due to extreme high CPU. It is OK only for simple graphics, text, announcements etc all VJ software have such functionality, templates build in. Even years back while creating more sophisticated visuals with Flash they would be exported to QT. The serious content creation software is After Effects, Adobe products have great integration so you just start in Illustrator, PS etc than take it to AF and export to QT. Probably 90% of live visuals are created with AF. Independently on software used convert all visuals to same format/container for stability, like Photo jpg @ 80% quality.
Last edited by rikhyray on Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rdej
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:41 pm

Re: selfmade live visuals - which programs are out there?

Post by Rdej » Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:41 pm

Quartz Composer which is available for free as part of developer tools on OS X. Incredible that such a powerful program is free out of the box.

nemoy
Posts: 380
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:45 pm
Contact:

Re: selfmade live visuals - which programs are out there?

Post by nemoy » Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:56 pm

I think he mentioned vector based live visualisation...
This steps into a huge field of generative motion graphics;

The classic VJ-approach on the other hand is all about Creating Content, collecting videos and playing/manipulating them at a gig. I too love Resolume / Modul8 / etc. but as soon as you try to step out of the Video-playback-Dogma, you're very soon very limited. Even the QT thing is limited to very few ajustable pearmeters.

In this point, the classic VJ is a lot like a DJ, who plays songs. (his own, or other people's)
While generative Forms of Visualisation are much closer to a live Act, creating images, rather than playing prepared ones.

Thats why I mentioned VVVV.
Processing is fantastic too!
but with these, you need to know what you're doing...

And i really like, how in Processing you can controll basically everything, you can think of via Midi. Resolume and M8 have that nice little bit of midi implementation, but it isn't enough i my opinion.

#1thelark
Posts: 985
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:06 pm

Re: selfmade live visuals - which programs are out there?

Post by #1thelark » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:12 pm

rikhyray wrote:Resolume is the best at the moment, Arkaos is usable, vvvv - is more for fixed installations then live and anyway unreliable, good for nerds with too much time and nothing better to do. Ignore suggestion about Flash, obsolete and was never really good for live visuals due to extreme high CPU. It is OK only for simple graphics, text, announcements etc all VJ software have such functionality, templates build in. Even years back while creating more sophisticated visuals with Flash they would be exported to QT. The serious content creation software is After Effects, Adobe products have great integration so you just start in Illustrator, PS etc than take it to AF and export to QT. Probably 90% of live visuals are created with AF. Independently on software used convert all visuals to same format/container for stability, like Photo jpg @ 80% quality.
Thanks for your hints,rikhyray!

Just to make sure: AF is only suitable for creating small videoclips which then can be played by other software, right? There ain't no way to assign a midicontroller or CC from Live to preprogrammed AF animations, or am I wrong?

Stuff like this ain't possible to create in a live situation, I guess?

nemoy
Posts: 380
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:45 pm
Contact:

Re: selfmade live visuals - which programs are out there?

Post by nemoy » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:58 pm

Nope... you would have to use a midi file to to controll something in after effects, and then render it.
and Then play it back at a gig or wherever.

After effects is Great, one of my favorite programms actually. Its not for short clips either! you can make huge animations in there. But there's just nothing you can do "live" there...
You can also use audiofiles to control stuff in After effects, but again, you'll have to render it, and then play it back in some othe VJ software...

bigbadotis
Posts: 836
Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 10:31 pm
Location: rochester, ny
Contact:

Re: selfmade live visuals - which programs are out there?

Post by bigbadotis » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:30 pm

rikhyray wrote:Resolume is the best at the moment, Arkaos is usable, vvvv - is more for fixed installations then live and anyway unreliable, good for nerds with too much time and nothing better to do. Ignore suggestion about Flash, obsolete and was never really good for live visuals due to extreme high CPU. It is OK only for simple graphics, text, announcements etc all VJ software have such functionality, templates build in. Even years back while creating more sophisticated visuals with Flash they would be exported to QT. The serious content creation software is After Effects, Adobe products have great integration so you just start in Illustrator, PS etc than take it to AF and export to QT. Probably 90% of live visuals are created with AF. Independently on software used convert all visuals to same format/container for stability, like Photo jpg @ 80% quality.
He said live vector graphics. That's a pretty specific thing. After Effects isn't live, and it isn't vector. I don't think any of the solutions mentioned here, except Processing and Flash, can do live (not pre-rendered) vector graphics. The statement about Flash CPU and what Flash is OK for is ignorant. Have you really never seen more involved Flash visuals before? And the rest of your statement is also confusing... for example, bashing Flash for exporting to QuickTime and then describing how to do the same thing in After Effects. Or where you talk about the pros of Adobe integration in After Effects... um, hello? Who makes Flash again?

Having taught Flash, After Effects, Processing and Quartz Composer at various points in my life I stand by my statement, even though I no longer personally use Flash myself. If you want to limit coding (including use of dataflow languages) and want to do stuff with live vector art, Flash might be the best place to start. If you're just looking for the best way to start VJing there are a ton of better options out there, many described in this thread.

Dchild
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:14 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: selfmade live visuals - which programs are out there?

Post by Dchild » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:31 pm

If you have Maxforlive then definitely check out this modular set of tools

http://fabriziopoce.com/max.html

Oh and here's is great tutorial by fabrizio

http://vimeo.com/33503662

Post Reply