Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Blendton
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Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Post by Blendton » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:38 pm

It's kind of funny having myself thinking about what you write from your point of view and I understand as a diapointment from yourr own way to consider until Push what Abe's might have something unique, like an specific aura...

If allow myself to say I agree but my positive way of the global situation : you think talking about Push / workflow linked debates are foolish ? I agree.

Wow, a shoty post and indeed it's obvious for me I just may agree with you, but be happy in spite of Push, necause that Push stuff, I f***ing don't care about at the point it's both useless and not "Live" new feature, it's a box from Akai, I already saw this kind of thing, it's boring, uninteresting, hasn't any feature involving even a ridiculous way to argue about innovative complicity between the box and the soft ... Yeurk.

Live Suite 9 is and will constantly be the most advanced and pleasant tool we used to like or love.

Push ? It's a midi thing with pads from akai showwed on Abe's website I thing, énot sure you know, midi control and bidirectional (and kinf of as for present days a little "exclusive") way of signal transmitting, wouaaaaah, OK now I can go to sleep, no sex tonight, thanks to the last word being soooooooo boring to think about, even if it's looking nice, I'm pretty much focused on this years 1st monome oredering queue opening tomorrow dude. And to eventually having a 256 @ home because a Launchpad or other, it can "do like" but won't do monoming as monomizingly than a real Monome 256 ;).

BTW, Push wears its name, it's food for buyers, not a musicians dream :mrgreen:
Antoine, aka Blendton.

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Michael Hatsis
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Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Post by Michael Hatsis » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:25 am

To me, It seems like they are moving away from a 'choose your workflow' style program to a 'this is how you should use Live' style program. Things like Push, the new so-called 'browser' and lots of the little changes they have forced upon users with no option to revert back to pre-Live 9 behavior are pretty good indicators of this change in attitude.
If you remember back, one of the reasons it took so long for them to actually make a dedicated controller for Live is because they said they didn't know how to approach the creation of a one size fits all controller because of all of the different workflows that users had. Now not only do they have a dedicated controller, but seem to be designing the program to fit the workflow of this new controller.

Personally, I don't need Ableton to make a controller, there are plenty of amazing controller options out there. I need them to make Live faster, more efficient, and more flexible.

I'm still on Live 8.

Mike

Not_Elba
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Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Post by Not_Elba » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:37 am

mike@TrackTeam Audio wrote:To me, It seems like they are moving away from a 'choose your workflow' style program to a 'this is how you should use Live' style program.
I agree.

They should stop working on implementing new features and concentrating on improving the essential things. The overall workflow.
And they shouldn`t implement half-baked things like the new browser, limited automation curve editing (I know freeware which does it much better, sorry), or the overdub workflow.
Or the window (no detachable/docking windows or flexible gui configuration) and general configuration capabilities.
Everyone is different and has a different workflow. Give us total control of everything inside Live (not just automation parameters).
That`s the way they should heading in the future IMO.
Evolution instead revolution.
Last edited by Not_Elba on Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dazzer
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Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Post by dazzer » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:46 am

They should listen to absolutely every user on this thread and implement EVERYTHING that has been suggested, even if some of it is truly contradictory. Then, and only then, will they be moving in the right direction.

[art]
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Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Post by [art] » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:58 am

I am very happy with Ableton Live and it suits my purposes very well.

Push looks like an excellent device that combines session, drum, and melodic control.

In and among the Instruments and FX and M4L I have stuff that could keep me busy for years.

oddstep
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Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Post by oddstep » Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:23 am

Everyone is different and has a different workflow. Give us total control of everything inside Live (not just automation parameters).
This. One example. I often use timestretching of audio clips in complex mode during live performance. Stretching stuff out by clicking on the *2 button. It's a good sound. However not only is there no access to this parameter via the userconfiguration text. But its not even midi mappable. There are huge chunks of Live that haven't been fully implemented. Its like session automation. It's great, but its best for the use case of a individual working alone, largely with softsynths.. layering one track at time.

brettonwoodsapocalypse
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Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Post by brettonwoodsapocalypse » Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:17 pm

mike@TrackTeam Audio wrote:To me, It seems like they are moving away from a 'choose your workflow' style program to a 'this is how you should use Live' style program.
There's some element of truth there. In that sense the browser is fairly representative of L9. It's actually more efficient than L8 old browser ( let's be honest) but it's not as flexible.
I agree as well that seeing Live beeing more and more in sync with Push might not be to everybody's taste but on the other hand Live has always been about performing and in that sense designing hardware which is highly optimized to software ( and vice-versa) seems to me the only way forward if you consider Live more an instrument rather than a sequencer.

Willyum
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Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Post by Willyum » Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:27 am

I will not upgrade to Live 9 in it's current state.
I hate the Browser!!! I recommended they keep a legacy-browser mode during beta testing. I love Live 8, use it everyday, and there are a lot of features in 9 that I do want... but a lot of the the new stuff feels half baked to me. I also do not like that they abandoned the first two 'Live-Instruments' (launchpad and apc40 were both ableton branded... neither got any updated scripts. I also don't like that I get stripped of my 'Suite' status unless I buy their friends software (I don't want Max... and that is the only difference from 8 Suite to 9 suite (and some orchestral sounds)), So I own every Live Device made, but would be stripped of 'Suite'...Horrible! I don't like that they absolutely ignored the largest thread during beta testing... Old Abes would have talked to the people and at least said 'no, we're not doing that and here's why'.

The biggest disappointment for me is that, because I refuse to upgrade, I don't get to use the new nativeKONTROL.com scripts where he gives ALL controllers 'Push' functionality!

re:dream
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Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Post by re:dream » Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:32 am

The browser was unfamiliar and irritating at first, but the more I use it, the more intuitive it feels.

The fact that I have a Live 8 library and a Live 9 one is a little irritating, but I can see that they wanted to keep the old structure for legacy reasons.

deva
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Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Post by deva » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:31 am

I am happy enough with the direction Ableton is going.

nemoy
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Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Post by nemoy » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:22 am

lionelrc wrote:
mike@TrackTeam Audio wrote:To me, It seems like they are moving away from a 'choose your workflow' style program to a 'this is how you should use Live' style program.
There's some element of truth there. In that sense the browser is fairly representative of L9. It's actually more efficient than L8 old browser ( let's be honest) but it's not as flexible.
I agree as well that seeing Live beeing more and more in sync with Push might not be to everybody's taste but on the other hand Live has always been about performing and in that sense designing hardware which is highly optimized to software ( and vice-versa) seems to me the only way forward if you consider Live more an instrument rather than a sequencer.
And here's the Problem: It is great, to have a dedicated Hardware controller to perform live. But then, they changed their focus a lot more towards a DAW and a recording/production workflow, than towards actual live performances.
The whole session-record/Midi overdub -mess was a really clear sign...

Live Performances is the one really big thing about ableton. They should advance a lot more in that direction! And "push" this even further!

Michael Hatsis
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Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Post by Michael Hatsis » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:44 am

lionelrc wrote:
mike@TrackTeam Audio wrote:To me, It seems like they are moving away from a 'choose your workflow' style program to a 'this is how you should use Live' style program.
There's some element of truth there. In that sense the browser is fairly representative of L9. It's actually more efficient than L8 old browser ( let's be honest) but it's not as flexible.
I agree as well that seeing Live beeing more and more in sync with Push might not be to everybody's taste but on the other hand Live has always been about performing and in that sense designing hardware which is highly optimized to software ( and vice-versa) seems to me the only way forward if you consider Live more an instrument rather than a sequencer.
The browser is definitely not more efficient in Live 9. Efficient is definitely not the word i would use to describe it :P . Different- yes. A marketing tool- yes, I guess it is efficient if you are a push user or using partner live packs, but that's it.
Definitely not efficient if you are organizing your own content. Also, I cannot efficiently browse my hard drives either, unless I index them and wait- no thanks. As for the indexed search, seems to still be a mess for most people.

Also, I haven't seen anything from Ableton that indicates Push is a performance controller. Everything I have seen so far says that it's a composition tool.

Michael Hatsis
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Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Post by Michael Hatsis » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:49 am

nemoy wrote:
lionelrc wrote:
mike@TrackTeam Audio wrote:To me, It seems like they are moving away from a 'choose your workflow' style program to a 'this is how you should use Live' style program.
There's some element of truth there. In that sense the browser is fairly representative of L9. It's actually more efficient than L8 old browser ( let's be honest) but it's not as flexible.
I agree as well that seeing Live beeing more and more in sync with Push might not be to everybody's taste but on the other hand Live has always been about performing and in that sense designing hardware which is highly optimized to software ( and vice-versa) seems to me the only way forward if you consider Live more an instrument rather than a sequencer.
And here's the Problem: It is great, to have a dedicated Hardware controller to perform live. But then, they changed their focus a lot more towards a DAW and a recording/production workflow, than towards actual live performances.
The whole session-record/Midi overdub -mess was a really clear sign...

Live Performances is the one really big thing about ableton. They should advance a lot more in that direction! And "push" this even further!

As I mentioned above, I haven't seen anything from Ableton that markets push as a performance tool. A performance tool is something like Touchable, Live control, APC40 or Lemur...

A way forward for performance is to have a robust, well documented API so that 3rd parties like Livid/TOuchable guys/Liine.... can make some ridiculous controllers. One sie fits all is definitely not the best move I think.

Mike

andydes
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Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Post by andydes » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:12 am

mike@TrackTeam Audio wrote:To me, It seems like they are moving away from a 'choose your workflow' style program to a 'this is how you should use Live' style program. Things like Push, the new so-called 'browser' and lots of the little changes they have forced upon users with no option to revert back to pre-Live 9 behavior are pretty good indicators of this change in attitude.
I'm not sure really. The browser and Push do seem to indicate this. On the other hand, M4L is the ultimate tool for customising workflow. If anything, that takes things a bit too far in the other direction- If Live can't do something, make it yourself (but that's not really the same as having features built in).

The browser issues are worrying. Possibly they only really became apparent in the beta and it's too imbedded to have an option to revert back. Hopefully they can be resolved quickly.

As for Push, I don't have a problem with it, nor am I likely to get one. It's clearly an attempt to counter to Maschine. I think they need to make sure that push and any successors ate designed to work with live. Not the other way round. Live itself needs to be hardware independent.

So generally, I'm pretty happy with the direction. It doesn't seem to changed much to me. Just as long as they fix the issues people have

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