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Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:54 pm
by Gregory Wells-King
I've been using Live since about Version 6, I had 4 Le for a trial and loved it so much I upgraded within a month or so of starting out, since those early day's Live has definitely had it's dark months, though in Abletons defence it must have been difficult to separate out the massive amount of possible hard wear conflicts and failures of the users equipment from actual soft wear failings. To give you an example the early day's on this forum were filled with folks having problems with latency and noise quite often due to problems with hard wear or soundcards, though at the time you could have thought otherwise.

You have to face the fact the face of the music industry and music making has taken a huge leap across a digital gap that was present for years and years prior to software making a truly impactful mark on the face of the factory, and with it still goes the saying 'people often blame the equipment for lack of capacity or character which in fact they may be missing themselves in musicianship or skill. lets face facts if I was a rock solid guitar player and keyboardist I wouldn't need much more than Reaper and some simple outboard.

Live is qwerky, useable, customizable, clever, helpful and more as the saying goes 'The possibilities are endless' if doesn't help you, then sell it.

Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:56 pm
by jlgrimes
kryptonitejesus wrote:Keep in mind this IS expensive software, does it actually feel like you've gotten proper value from it? (I don't want to hear from you pirating users who will give me glowing enthusiasm on how much you love it... after all, who DOESN'T love free stuff?)

I've been a user since the beginning of 8 and feel like I'm currently watching history repeat itself, but I'm just interested how you guys feel with the "improvements" and "changes" they've been incorporating into the workflow.

Personally I feel like there's been a major lack of attention paid to the major issues where it is needed the most, many major flaws were exposed during the lengthy beta testing for 9 and I honestly don't feel like anything was done about any of the issues addressed.

I feel like Abes has lost it's way and has haphazardly thrown together incomplete software in a quick-ditch attempt to coincide along with the OPTIONAL hardware release of Push which anyone who's super serious about arranging music will probably skip over.


Am I the only one who feels this way? I'm a bit jaded on the whole situation and have since bought Cubase 7 and haven't had any major issues whatsoever like some of the prevalent issues I'm constantly facing in 8/9.

I feel like Ableton is slowly becoming a child's toy with how watered down it's becoming.

Here's one of the major issues encountered on the forum that I don't feel has been given quite enough attention, unless I'm missing it. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qGJEvtP0bQ)

p.s. oh, and what's up with that nag dialogue asking you to take a survey? Isn't this supposed to be 1/2 performance software and 1/2 production software? That shit doesn't pop-up mid mix does it?
I give the Abes a B+ overall.

IMO Ableton only has one glaring weakness which deals with its implementation of PDC. It's automation might be its second biggest weakness. Everything else tends to have at least reasonable workarounds.

If the Abes got that right I would easily give them an A+.

Sure they have other small weaknesses but overall Ableton still performs best for its niche which is creating not neccesarily fully mixing tracks. Maybe they are dropping the ball on Live performance issues but I never really used Ableton for that anyways.

9 wasn't a total flop. I like it better than 8 initially. To me I love the new Session Record button, the new effects do seem to sound better, Abelton always had a great piano roll IMO, probably not the most powerful, but highly usable.

Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:09 pm
by jlgrimes
kryptonitejesus wrote:Keep in mind this IS expensive software, does it actually feel like you've gotten proper value from it? (I don't want to hear from you pirating users who will give me glowing enthusiasm on how much you love it... after all, who DOESN'T love free stuff?)

I've been a user since the beginning of 8 and feel like I'm currently watching history repeat itself, but I'm just interested how you guys feel with the "improvements" and "changes" they've been incorporating into the workflow.

Personally I feel like there's been a major lack of attention paid to the major issues where it is needed the most, many major flaws were exposed during the lengthy beta testing for 9 and I honestly don't feel like anything was done about any of the issues addressed.

I feel like Abes has lost it's way and has haphazardly thrown together incomplete software in a quick-ditch attempt to coincide along with the OPTIONAL hardware release of Push which anyone who's super serious about arranging music will probably skip over.


Am I the only one who feels this way? I'm a bit jaded on the whole situation and have since bought Cubase 7 and haven't had any major issues whatsoever like some of the prevalent issues I'm constantly facing in 8/9.

I feel like Ableton is slowly becoming a child's toy with how watered down it's becoming.

Here's one of the major issues encountered on the forum that I don't feel has been given quite enough attention, unless I'm missing it. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qGJEvtP0bQ)

p.s. oh, and what's up with that nag dialogue asking you to take a survey? Isn't this supposed to be 1/2 performance software and 1/2 production software? That shit doesn't pop-up mid mix does it?

Also I do own other DAWS Sonar, FL Studio, Reason 7, Reaper 4, Studio One, I've found that they all have weaknesses.

Sonar probably has the most features but it is probably the buggiest and I am on Mac now so I don't use it at all now.

FL Studio is supposed to have the best piano roll but I never really clicked with its interface overall.

I probably like Reason 2nd best for creating but IMO it has much more glaring weaknesses than Live (no PDC at all, the worst piano roll in the business, limited selection of REs and libraries compared to VSTs, too busy of an interface for mixing).

Reaper is probably my favorite for mixing. It is very complete in features yet surprisingly stable for something that cheap, but its interface is horrible for creating music using midi. It's piano roll is almost as bad as Reasons although it is very customizable.

Studio One is kind of a mix of Ableton and Reaper. It is better than Live for mixing and better than Reaper for creating, but not as good as Live for creating. Also I find that Studio One crashes more than Ableton so go figure.

That said I think Studio one is probably my 2nd best program for mixing and 3rd best for creating.

Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:26 pm
by v00d00ppl
shadx312 wrote:Image
Imagine snorting coke with this guy and having a conversation afterwards.

Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:07 am
by yudhisthira
Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going? - not me.

"No, no, Listen to me, What producers want isnt important!, what IS important is that we sell a shit-load of these overpriced midi controllers"
-Gerhard Behles, co-founder of ableton









.

Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:21 am
by eyeknow
v00d00ppl wrote:
shadx312 wrote:Image
Imagine snorting coke with this guy and having a conversation afterwards.
That would be to die for

Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:23 am
by eyeknow
@subject: I dunno, it's ok. I mean, I expected a bit more from 9 w/o so many bugs for a while but it's ironed out ok. I still like 8 more though 8O

Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:25 am
by astromass
Wow....I guess I am really lucky or something....
I've used live since version 1.5.
It is my main daw and production environment.
I've never had any glitches or crashes....knock on wood.
I use a Mac mini with 8gb of ram.
I realize I'm not some 'power user' that needs 1000 tracks of various 3rd party plug ins and I don't sequence external instruments, but I feel that I'm making some really good stuff on the system that I've got.
I feel very at home with live9 and I'm loving push. I don't perform live with live...because I play bass and sing in a duo.
My main gripe is the weird library/packs system....it's kinda wonky.

Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:57 am
by artpunk
yudhisthira wrote:Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going? - not me.
"No, no, Listen to me, What producers want isnt important!, what IS important is that we sell a shit-load of these overpriced midi controllers"
-Gerhard Behles, co-founder of ableton
.
? Like he really said that. I'm not sure what your problem is as you didn't really explain what you are unhappy with regarding Abletons direction. I tried to work it out, but who can tell as you have cut and pasted 4 of your entire 11 posts in this forum -
yudhisthira wrote:How Many Threads Do We Have To Make About This?? What does it take? Artists are asking for feature improvements to help their work, they dont need a new skin and a compressor
...and a couple of posts about PDC (not everybody is screaming for this particular issue to be top priority btw) and a couple of others...

I for one am happy with the direction Ableton is going. Live 9.1 is just another step in a good direction, including dual windows, melodic step sequencing on a hardware controller that I feel is very good value for money having used it for a while now. Ableton are continually improving their product and I have found their customer support very good. I'm not sure what more they can do. Of course everyone has different needs and wants. So some individuals user requests are not being met with the alacrity that those users feel is deserved. I understand the frustration, but I'm fairly certain any product from any company would face similar issues. To then deduce the company is going in a "wrong" direction (surely a very subjective concept anyway!) is erroneous itself.
I may have simple DAW needs compared to yours but honestly, pseudo-quotes like your one above doesn't really address real issues or even begin to be a constructive answer to the question at hand. As astromas said, maybe I am really lucky... or perhaps those complaining would anyway no matter what positives out weigh the negatives...
:wink:

Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:04 am
by merges
jlgrimes wrote:I give the Abes a B+ overall.

IMO Ableton only has one glaring weakness which deals with its implementation of PDC. It's automation might be its second biggest weakness. Everything else tends to have at least reasonable workarounds.
+1!

Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:14 am
by TomViolenz
I just started with the release of Live 8, in the dark days (they were actually not THAT dark ;-)), but I think the general direction the software is taking is A OK with me.
I hope they manage to integrate Push further and further, maybe make a Push Studio in the future, with a big color TOUCH screen and maybe an extra controller for Arrangement! (They have to solve the problem then though of having two control surfaces at the same time i.e. two blue hands)

The problem I actually have with the Abes is the little things and the attention to detail that are sometimes missing.
Just take the mapping for Lives own devices in Push - they just took the generic mapping of yore, when no-one actually had a controller like Push with screens and bank buttons to use.
They are pretty much unusable. Yet when we rectified the problem for them with our community mapping, it only took two novices less than a week!
I'm sure a student-intern could have done this in two days. But they didn't do it, thereby crippeling their own product needlessly!
Another thing I don't like, is the missing responsiveness of the Abes to it's users. Many people have asked for years for time stretching in Sampler, yet there is not even word on, if it is even considered to be added!
I think they should hire at least one person who does nothing but post helpful answers in the Live forums and collects all grievances of the community into a list of issues to work on for the programmers.

Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:54 pm
by deva
Live 9 is working well and is solid... Push is excellent... so yes, I am happy with the direction. Might I like it to go faster or address this or that niggle? I suppose, but if Live was never updated again (except for maintenance updates) I would happily keep using it as is.

Re: Who is actually happy with the direction Ableton is going?

Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:04 pm
by kayhel
cotdagoo wrote:
The Finn wrote: and I don't see what is wrong with them releasing minor updates in an ongoing way as they discover and deal with issues.
My issue isn't with the discovery of issues.. it's the fact that they knew about many issues/concerns before release, and rather than sticking it out an extra month (what's an extra month on top of 3 years since Live 8?) or so they're selling software they knew had issues.

The exact same thing happened with Live 8.. just not hoping for a repeat. I installed at least 60 betas of Live 8 AFTER it was released before it was even close to a solid product. Not saying Live 9 isn't stable, as the crash reports seems to be quite fewer - but there's a lot to be concerned about that wasn't addressed seemingly in favour of selling hardware like PUSH over fixing deeper issues with the program like PDC which have existed for many versions without fix.

Setting a software release date months in advance is partly to blame I'm sure. You can't expect all the bumps along the way, and how long it takes to fix them.

Yes i am mainly waiting for professional automation timing when using 3rd party tools. Thats a known issue since 2010 (or even earlier) not any progress on that til now. I dont need blinky new stuff unless basic things are working. Answers from support are always polite but never concrete. They are professional in terms of not adressing a solution for this problem. So i am relly disappointed. Still on live 8 suite because of this.