Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
agent314
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by agent314 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:16 pm

Hmm.. That's not a good sign because that's actually been the case for all Akai pads because they're not sensitive and responsive enough due to the way they're designed with a gap between the sensor and the pads. Whenever I tried to play sustained notes on MPCs and MPDs, they would get cut off too easily, making them only useful for percussive style triggering. It's night and day when comparing to more sensitive pads like on Maschine or padkontrol which don't have that issue at all.
These pads are 100% way, way better than MPC/MPD pads. They are not even in the same league.

I have the pad sensitivity set to -15, and it is the most satisfying instrument to play in terms of physical responsiveness that I have ever had, including guitars, pianos and keyboards. It truly feels like an instrument designed for playing synths, which up to now have mostly been pianos that make synthesizer noises.

That said, the layout of the pads is not as accommodating for certain chord/intervals as a regular keyboard, which is both a positive and negative. Negative, because I can't directly translate my (limited) keyboard proficiency onto the pads, but positive because it causes me to play things in new ways, which is awesome.
ALSO, unexpected for me, I find myself far more proficient than I expected, due to the pads using much of the same motor memory and mechanics as typing on a computer keyboard, which I am doing all day long.

I am extremely happy with Push so far. It's not without its faults, but I spent 2 hours playing and jamming and creating new beats last night, and never once had to use my mouse.

I've used Configure to set VST parameters for DIVA, including changing oscillator and filter modes, and it has completely reinvented the synth for me. It feels like playing hardware, and it feels amazing.

If my own experience is any indication, part of the reason there's so much toxic-ass bitching on the forums about it, is that the people who really like it are too busy playing with it to spend time online :)

Again, not without its problems, but it is a huuuuuge step forward for hands-on production.

agent314
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by agent314 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:19 pm

That said: this has actually intensified one of my biggest problems with Live, which is that the workflow ends up making it way more fun and way more tempting to just jam and create new ideas and work in that momentary, inspired state, than it is to actually arrange them into proper songs.

Whenever/if ever they figure out a way to access Places and load loops etc. from folders, all bets are off.

agent314
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by agent314 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:24 pm

Something interesting also that I have noticed in my two days of playing around, is that Push is actually not a faster workflow than mouse and keyboard - in fact it is markedly slower - but it is much more satisfying, and feels much more creative, than clicking and dragging

agent314
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by agent314 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:26 pm

Continuing my brain-dump, I have been using it side-by-side with my APC40, which is waaay better for me than I think it would be just using it solo.

Being able to launch clips for recording via APC is huge, and facilitates a workflow that the Push on its own definitely does not feel as readily equipped for - at least not as easily.

onestep
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by onestep » Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:58 pm

agent314 wrote:I've used Configure to set VST parameters for DIVA, including changing oscillator and filter modes, and it has completely reinvented the synth for me.
The problem with using Configure to set up plugin parameters beforehand in order for them to show up on Push is that none of that gets saved so you would have to re-do the Configure setup every single time you load that same plugin again.

UCAudio
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by UCAudio » Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:53 am

onestep wrote:
agent314 wrote:I've used Configure to set VST parameters for DIVA, including changing oscillator and filter modes, and it has completely reinvented the synth for me.
The problem with using Configure to set up plugin parameters beforehand in order for them to show up on Push is that none of that gets saved so you would have to re-do the Configure setup every single time you load that same plugin again.
What if you configure the vst and put it in a rack... then load that rack whenever you want to use the vst. Would that save the configuration?

agent314
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by agent314 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:48 am

What if you configure the vst and put it in a rack... then load that rack whenever you want to use the vst. Would that save the configuration?
Yep - this is what I've been doing. The nice thing is that this way, I can load it via Push too

monohusche
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by monohusche » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:51 am

agent314 wrote:
What if you configure the vst and put it in a rack... then load that rack whenever you want to use the vst. Would that save the configuration?
Yep - this is what I've been doing. The nice thing is that this way, I can load it via Push too
This is also one of the things that I find "interesting" (disclaimer: I sold Maschine as I want an "all ableton" setup, but I did like it a lot, now waiting for Push to arrive tomorrow), the plugin mapping constantly comes up as an issue with Push.

But who would want hundreds of parameters being mapped anyway ? Wouldn't most people like to select the most important 8 parameters (not sure about the other banks and how to relate to instrument racks) of their plugins and make them into an instrument rack to be used with different plugin presets or custom sounds over and over again ? Map it once, and keep using the "racked" version of that plugin all the time.


I am probably using a maximum of 10 plugins regularly, so to come up with 10 racks (or even 20 or 30 if I wanted to have different mappings for different purposes) doesn't sound like a MAJOR effort to me.

Anyway, not trying to discard some other user's issues here, just wondering to myself.

<final maschine comment>As much as I liked Maschine, I don't think, it allowed you to define and save custom control mappings for 3rd party plugins "Kore style", or did I miss that ?</final maschine comment>

SuburbanThug
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by SuburbanThug » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:50 am

This is also one of the things that I find "interesting" (disclaimer: I sold Maschine as I want an "all ableton" setup, but I did like it a lot, now waiting for Push to arrive tomorrow), the plugin mapping constantly comes up as an issue with Push.

But who would want hundreds of parameters being mapped anyway ? Wouldn't most people like to select the most important 8 parameters (not sure about the other banks and how to relate to instrument racks) of their plugins and make them into an instrument rack to be used with different plugin presets or custom sounds over and over again ? Map it once, and keep using the "racked" version of that plugin all the time.


I am probably using a maximum of 10 plugins regularly, so to come up with 10 racks (or even 20 or 30 if I wanted to have different mappings for different purposes) doesn't sound like a MAJOR effort to me.

Anyway, not trying to discard some other user's issues here, just wondering to myself.

<final maschine comment>As much as I liked Maschine, I don't think, it allowed you to define and save custom control mappings for 3rd party plugins "Kore style", or did I miss that ?</final maschine comment>
The common reason for wanting all parameters mapped is for sound design straight from the instrument. I don't mind doing sound design from the computer and fine tuning once I start playing on the controller and mapping macros for live performance and recording automation. I find it much easier than paging through tons of parameters on a two inch wide screen but I can understand wanting to have all parameters mapped.

pencilrocket
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by pencilrocket » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:04 am

Are there seriously any engineers who want to tweak parameters like: let's see lfo parameters on page 2, tweak this a little bit, ok now let's find out reverb amount, er.. I think it was in page 11..., no, ah I found it in page 12, ok tweak it, I need to edit unison phase and filter resonance, so where are they... Actually all knobs are shown on your computer screen while you are struggling.

It seems nightmare to me. Less parameter assignment would be better.
Image

humnumb
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by humnumb » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:10 am

monohusche wrote:As much as I liked Maschine, I don't think, it allowed you to define and save custom control mappings for 3rd party plugins "Kore style", or did I miss that ?
You did miss it. Maschine does allow you to define and save custom control mappings for 3rd party plugins and save that as the default automapping.

SuburbanThug
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by SuburbanThug » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:18 am

pencilrocket wrote:Are there seriously any engineers who want to tweak parameters like: let's see lfo parameters on page 2, tweak this a little bit, ok now let's find out reverb amount, er.. I think it was in page 11..., no, ah I found it in page 12, ok tweak it, I need to edit unison phase and filter resonance, so where are they... Actually all knobs are shown on your computer screen while you are struggling.

It seems nightmare to me. Less parameter assignment would be better.
Exactly why I'll keep doing most of my sound design in the box.

monohusche
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by monohusche » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:10 am

humnumb wrote:
monohusche wrote:As much as I liked Maschine, I don't think, it allowed you to define and save custom control mappings for 3rd party plugins "Kore style", or did I miss that ?
You did miss it. Maschine does allow you to define and save custom control mappings for 3rd party plugins and save that as the default automapping.
Thanks for heads up, would have been good to dig deeper before. In any case, for me that means that Push (as well as Maschine) both provide sufficient support for using third party plugins, mostly from a performance and modulation/automation perspective. I don't consider the prep work (custom mapping of controls) a weakness as I wouldn't know how anyone could sensibly automatically select the right performance/tweaking controls that make everyone happy. Kore had that, but that was because NI owned the platform as well as the plugs.

As others have said, I don't try to do sound design outside of the computer. For me, it limits my creativity due to the "directional approach" of traversing through pages, rather than having most of the parameters available on the plugin GUI.

humnumb
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by humnumb » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:31 am

monohusche wrote:I wouldn't know how anyone could sensibly automatically select the right performance/tweaking controls that make everyone happy. Kore had that, but that was because NI owned the platform as well as the plugs.
Yeah, Maschine has that with Komplete as well. Maschine's automapping has been even more improved with all of Komplete 9. The factory default mappings are better organized now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcWIW6Muw9U

Citizen
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by Citizen » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:41 am

humnumb wrote:Yeah, Maschine has that with Komplete as well. Maschine's automapping has been even more improved with all of Komplete 9. The factory default mappings are better organized now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcWIW6Muw9U
Really? In what way? I wasn't aware of that.

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