Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
artpunk
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by artpunk » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:46 am

As much as this is nice, can we please get back on topic about "Thoughts on Push by those who have it now" as I am still keen to hear information about Push before I pick mine up.
If I'm not mistaken there are is a Maschine/Push comparison-thing thread still active...
:D

“... it was just to make an average listener go: ‘What the fuck is this?’ That’s a real inspiration for me and something that I will explore more on upcoming recordings.”
- Wally De Backer (Gotye) quoting Ween's intention behind making records

SuburbanThug
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by SuburbanThug » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:53 am

It's definitely geared towards being a playable instrument and a creative sketchpad. It is less functional than the APC as a performance controller but I expect that to change a little bit as they modify the script and people release Max patches and modded scripts.

By instrument I mean that in a live environment it is like an alternative to a keyboard. It's easy for a newcomer to shred on and easy to come up with melodies and chords that you might not on a keyboard. It will easily break you of using the same scales and structures if you have that issue like I do.

If you are looking for something to do DJ sets with or wild effects and parameter changes live I would go with a Livid or an APC since they feature faders and crossfaders and are geared more towards this usage. Even the new Akai keyboards with multiple touchstrips would be more useful for this application if you want to control more than two automatable parameters at once. Many people are concerned with turning Push into a more APC like controller but you'll realize that that clearly wasn't the intended use when you get down to learning it. It's for sketching and writing at home and for playing a single instrument live. Of course you can change that but like I said there are already other controllers that may be more suited to your vision.

artpunk
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by artpunk » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:04 am

SuburbanThug wrote:It's definitely geared towards being a playable instrument and a creative sketchpad. It is less functional than the APC as a performance controller but I expect that to change a little bit as they modify the script and people release Max patches and modded scripts.

By instrument I mean that in a live environment it is like an alternative to a keyboard. It's easy for a newcomer to shred on and easy to come up with melodies and chords that you might not on a keyboard. It will easily break you of using the same scales and structures if you have that issue like I do....
Thanks SuburbanThug... It's this aspect, the breaking out of the same old patterns/habits/structures through mechanical memory, familiarisation etc that mould the way I might be creating music with more conventional interfaces like the piano keyboard that I am really interested in... as well as being a very convenient sketchpad integrated well with Live of course. I don't think anyone would be that interested in hearing/seeing me DJing, on any equipment! :wink:

“... it was just to make an average listener go: ‘What the fuck is this?’ That’s a real inspiration for me and something that I will explore more on upcoming recordings.”
- Wally De Backer (Gotye) quoting Ween's intention behind making records

SuburbanThug
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by SuburbanThug » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:12 am

I like to load up a simple sine wave with glide on it, add redux, and pretend I'm Jimi Hendrix covering the theme from Tetris. :lol:

JimConley
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by JimConley » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:48 am

Push is great, especially for those of us new to Live. I've been using Live for audio recording and gradually familiarizing myself with the MIDI implementation and looping (which is kind of backwards compared to most use cases I think) and clips and scenes have been something I really haven't done much with. After using Push for the last three days I now have a much clearer idea on how to use them and it's radically changed my workflow. Case in point:

Previously I used looped samples for the drum parts (I know - I suck but the drum parts were generally placeholders until I could pass on the tracks to a drummer I know to do the real thing): Now I'm using the step sequencer to build the basic drum tracks and it's a hell of a lot of fun.

My guitar parts are no longer being done as "let's do a long recording and then cut and paste the pieces together". Now I'm treating them as proper clips and setting loop lengths, again something that Push opened my eyes to.

I'm a reasonable keyboard player and the instrument mode is pretty cool, especially if you understand some basic music theory. Within a couple of hours I was playing several tunes (albeit somewhat modified) on the pads.

I could go on and on but overall I consider the Push the smartest hardware purchase I've made in years. It's fun and that's really what making music should be.

I also let my 10-year old son play with it and it was a testament to how instinctive the Push is. After 10 minutes of showing him around he was making his own beats and clips and rocking it out in Session mode. Biggest challenge today was getting him to let me be and play with it myself.

agent314
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by agent314 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:16 pm

It's this aspect, the breaking out of the same old patterns/habits/structures through mechanical memory, familiarisation etc that mould the way I might be creating music with more conventional interfaces like the piano keyboard that I am really interested in... as well as being a very convenient sketchpad integrated well with Live of course.
This is huuuuge. The same is also going for when I use it for plugins - I've been using it with Diva a lot, and it has completely reinvented how I use it and what I tweak and it has definitely inspired me to try things I would never try when using the interface.
Are there seriously any engineers who want to tweak parameters like: let's see lfo parameters on page 2, tweak this a little bit, ok now let's find out reverb amount, er.. I think it was in page 11..., no, ah I found it in page 12, ok tweak it, I need to edit unison phase and filter resonance, so where are they... Actually all knobs are shown on your computer screen while you are struggling.

It seems nightmare to me. Less parameter assignment would be better.
Like I said, this is what I've been doing with a few synths, and it has transformed how I use them. Having all the controls right there while I'm playing and not having to click and drag around to change parameters has made my softsynths feel more like hardware than I thought possible.

I am loving it for this.

Jay_NJ
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by Jay_NJ » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:02 pm

Would most of you say it's worth the money you paid for it? I've thought of getting one, but was turned off by the price tag, which in my opinion seems overpriced. I might end up going for a decent controller like the Impulse as an alternative. Some of the features of the Push definitely interest me (beat mode, scales), but then again these could be accomplished with drumpads and Live's scale plugin. I'll give it some more time and see if the majority of reactions are positive.

ezelkow1
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by ezelkow1 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:06 pm

Id say its worth it, but then again I only paid 450$, so for that Id definitely say its worth it, 600$, ehh Id definitely have to think hard about that one

I do love the interface to it, the build quality, how it does really suck you in, however if your stuck on price then just wait 6mo-year and you'll find it much cheaper. Just look at how much the apc40 dropped and what you can find it for now

SuburbanThug
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by SuburbanThug » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:19 pm

Jay_NJ wrote:Would most of you say it's worth the money you paid for it? I've thought of getting one, but was turned off by the price tag, which in my opinion seems overpriced. I might end up going for a decent controller like the Impulse as an alternative. Some of the features of the Push definitely interest me (beat mode, scales), but then again these could be accomplished with drumpads and Live's scale plugin. I'll give it some more time and see if the majority of reactions are positive.
I payed $530 for it and I'm quite satisfied. There are and will be more emulations for the pad layout and scales function but the sensitivity and aftertouch will definitely add to the experience. The quality of the build is exceptional. Coupled with the layout we're talking about serious playability. They took the idea that this is supposed to be an instrument very seriously and in that regard it is a lot of fun and pretty damn inspiring. For beat sequencing it's an easy ride. I could definitely use access to more than 16 bars at a time but for now it's enough for some serious juggling. The nudge function comes in very handy if you're into Dilla style beats, stuff with swing and groove. I feel somewhat privileged to have received one in the first run. I think this thing is going to create some positive change in the way a lot of people approach creating sample and midi based composition.

Jay_NJ
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by Jay_NJ » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:24 pm

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll definitely keep an eye on it.

bodhi71
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by bodhi71 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:23 am

I've been using Live since version 7, and not until I actually had Push in my hands did I finally feel "connected". I never felt comfortable with playing keys, goodbye Novation SL61. Nor did I enjoy the MPD24's feel, even after modifying the pads. I took about a half a second to be fully convinced I made a good choice with staying with Ableton. The APC40 is still worth keeping, I am in the process of designing a frame to house one over the other at optimal angles.
My youngest son (4) loves it, as does my wife. A good indicator of the ease of playability.

Having the ability to adjust the sensitivity is a major bonus as is the scale concept.

I'd like to see an update where the triggered note displays in Push's window. Perhaps even the scale/mode formula. It would help navigate composing, especially if one isn't fully knowledgable of the intervals of a certain scale or mode. In time, I think having this addition will help strengthen one's perception of music. IMO, this should seriously be considered.

Navigating around on Push can be a little confusing at first, and a bit difficult because the thing is so damn playable that it can be it's own distraction when trying to learn. Not that it's overtly difficult, just not as straight forward as the APC40.

I was under the impression that all of the library was accessible from Live, samples and all. Perhaps this is too much to expect, ATM, or I may be missing all the ways to navigate through Push. Looking forward to this feature hopefully.

I hooked up a sustain pedal almost immediately and found this to be almost mandatory since. Planning on a second one to work as a damper.

I'm a terrible drummer but I'm finding playing Drum racks enjoyable and responsive.
Switching between instruments already loaded in a Live set can take a second or two (noticed this with mainly the piano racks).

I'll echo the comments on the build, it's great, although on occasion I noticed a light will sometimes fail to light when playing notes. I hope it is because I am hitting a note twice at the same time and not a glitch or from the manufacturer.

It may not be for everyone, but I am very pleased and feel very content. The pricing was painful, but I feel Ableton are worth supporting.

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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by Michael Hatsis » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:39 am

My honest opinion is that I definitely recommend spending a decent amount of time with Push before pulling the trigger. Its an expensive piece of gear and frankly, its not even close to being mature. Sure it adds something to Live, but there are definitely way more flexible and polished alternatives out there right now.
I will say though that the build quality is excellent and the scales mode is great fun. Also, If your into hacking and programming, the controller is very nice to program. If that is worth the cash to you...then go for it. With that money you can get an ipad and a bunch of different controller apps. There is one called soundprizm, to which scale mode in push has an uncanny resemblance to...You can also purchase that other hardware software combo that people seem to have a problem with- also, the akai ren, which is pretty damn good as well.

Mike

artpunk
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by artpunk » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:15 am

mike@TrackTeam Audio wrote:Sure it adds something to Live, but there are definitely way more flexible and polished alternatives out there right now.
Mike
Mike, I do appreciate your honest opinion, but I would be interested in hearing just which more flexible & polished alternatives you are referring to, that can do for me what the Push can do in regards to tight integration with Ableton out of the box in just one interface?

“... it was just to make an average listener go: ‘What the fuck is this?’ That’s a real inspiration for me and something that I will explore more on upcoming recordings.”
- Wally De Backer (Gotye) quoting Ween's intention behind making records

pencilrocket
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by pencilrocket » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:35 am

artpunk wrote:
mike@TrackTeam Audio wrote:Sure it adds something to Live, but there are definitely way more flexible and polished alternatives out there right now.
Mike
Mike, I do appreciate your honest opinion, but I would be interested in hearing just which more flexible & polished alternatives you are referring to, that can do for me what the Push can do in regards to tight integration with Ableton out of the box in just one interface?
maschine zombie comes.....
Image

Michael Hatsis
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Re: Thoughts on Push by those who have it now?

Post by Michael Hatsis » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:59 am

pencilrocket wrote:
artpunk wrote:
mike@TrackTeam Audio wrote:Sure it adds something to Live, but there are definitely way more flexible and polished alternatives out there right now.
Mike
Mike, I do appreciate your honest opinion, but I would be interested in hearing just which more flexible & polished alternatives you are referring to, that can do for me what the Push can do in regards to tight integration with Ableton out of the box in just one interface?
maschine zombie comes.....
haha...didn't say it tho...but since u brought it up- have u ever messed w a maschine.

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