What's up with Ableton?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
fimpson
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Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:44 am

What's up with Ableton?

Post by fimpson » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:30 am

I'm a relatively new ableton user - came in on Live 8 about two and a bit years ago. They seemed cool then. They had a low-budget website, low-budget marketing (seemed like mostly word-of-mouth) and they seemed a LOT more interested in making the end user genuinely happy with everything they did.

Recently though, threads here keep popping up about Ableton generally being "douchey". A few threads about push not coming with Intro for existing users despite what the website says / a slightly overpriced and not appropriately substantial update to the Live series / corner-cutting with the build quality and usability of push, a controller which was meant to be high-end.

But it's not just that stuff: The complaints we've all read here are mostly about Abes' customer support simply being rubbish on the above topics and others. Also, just stuff like them having a big expensive website that looks EXACTLY like Apple's, and them seemingly not putting a link to this forum anywhere at ableton.com, as if they are embarrassed about what gets discussed here.

I just really preferred it when they had their cool little website and didn't seem to take themselves too seriously - something I, and I'm sure many users here, really appreciated.

Anyway I suspect it's due to changes staff-wise upstairs in Ableton. Just a real pity to see one of my genuine favourite companies jump on the Apple-like "lets make a big empire and rip everyone off and control the world with flashy websites" bandwagon.

3osc
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Re: What's up with Ableton?

Post by 3osc » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:42 am

Exactly like Apple's? You might need your eyes checked.

I'm not sure what you expect. Ableton is a corporation. It makes a product to be sold. It wants profit. It doesn't need or want your love, just your money. It will market itself in accordance with trends shown to improve profits. I'm sorry it didn't turn out to be your underdog hero, but that's modern life.

The real question is, Can you use their product to create something?

fimpson
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Re: What's up with Ableton?

Post by fimpson » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:58 am

Exactly. I think if it wanted to do something different it would have kept the old website, which I thought must have had a very clever marketing concept behind it which I already discussed. More businesses need to be thinking about marketing in a conceptual way rather than the blatantly obvious way that we're talking about. Anyway all I'm saying is it's a pity. I don't really expect anything else.




The site is very similar to Apple's though. Just look at the product page for Live or Push and the product page for the iPhone. They both have all their features in a long list with a (sometimes interactive) picture and text box per feature and they both do that thing with the feature text boxes where it says a sentence in bold, then elaborates, then talks about it more in a smaller font. They both have a full screen picture of their product fade in on a visit to the homepage before the rest of the buttons come. All very good ideas that I assume Apple pioneered, but alas highly unoriginal when repeated. Ableton's website does look much 'trendier', I'll give them that.

3osc
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Re: What's up with Ableton?

Post by 3osc » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:03 am

fimpson wrote: The site is very similar to Apple's though. Just look at the product page for Live or Push and the product page for the iPhone. They both have all their features in a long list with a (sometimes interactive) picture and text box per feature and they both do that thing with the feature text boxes where it says a sentence in bold, then elaborates, then talks about it more in a smaller font. They both have a full screen picture of their product fade in on a visit to the homepage before the rest of the buttons come. All very good ideas that I assume Apple pioneered, but alas highly unoriginal when repeated. Ableton's website does look much 'trendier', I'll give them that.
Sounds like an argument a certain hardware company made regarding the design of their smartphone.

timothyallan
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Re: What's up with Ableton?

Post by timothyallan » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:08 am

I thought that Apple's website was quite pleasing on the eyes, and easy to read & navigate.

login
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Re: What's up with Ableton?

Post by login » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:27 am

There are design principles, some of them important inside functionalism and minimalism, if some companies stick to those principles probably their image would end being similar. The trick is to give them some personality.

IMHO Yes, apple and ableton have comon design principles, and now also MS with Win8, because the bauhaus school dominates when it comes to functionalism and it's principles are used by many. That being said apple is the one abondoning their former principles to adopt a more cheap look in their software.

Just look at Live, Windows 8 and old apple OS, and then look at the new apps by apple like calendar, the ebook store...

pencilrocket
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Re: What's up with Ableton?

Post by pencilrocket » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:48 am

Apple's website is far cheesier than Abe's. Glossy, toyish, noobish, outdated.

And apple isn't in minimalism. See their design concept. They keep trying to use Skeuomorphism. This is the opposite direction to Ableton's Minimalism. Totally different.
Image

fimpson
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Re: What's up with Ableton?

Post by fimpson » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:31 am

login wrote:There are design principles, some of them important inside functionalism and minimalism, if some companies stick to those principles probably their image would end being similar. The trick is to give them some personality.
yeah, that's the problem. Ableton has now basically filled the 'Apple' slot in the digital audio workstation industry, for me anyway - hence loosing a lot of their personality.

mr.ergonomics
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Re: What's up with Ableton?

Post by mr.ergonomics » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:00 am

Yes, I share a simillar (sad) view, fimpson. I may be wrong, bit I have the impression that they communicate more since a short time here in the forum. I'm still hoping that everything is going to be all right.
Last edited by mr.ergonomics on Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Blendton
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Re: What's up with Ableton?

Post by Blendton » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:09 am

fimpson wrote:
login wrote:There are design principles, some of them important inside functionalism and minimalism, if some companies stick to those principles probably their image would end being similar. The trick is to give them some personality.
yeah, that's the problem. Ableton has now basically filled the 'Apple' slot in the digital audio workstation industry, for me anyway - hence loosing a lot of their personality.
OK. Anyone having read something from me close the case buy "insane guy" almost instantly.

But please try to read thus ; I will ask for understanding when you'll grow up or you'll be far away from this place :

Ableton's personnality ? They lack for it ? Ok, Steve Duda / BSOD, Deadmau5, DJ Sasha (the almighty progressive house creator switching from 100% decks + table set to Macs and Ableton Live 5) >>> THEY ARE Ableton's personnality.

Max befriends a "popular" and "for kids" (be objective : make the stuff sorting a note with live is somewhat easier than in Max, where I even don't know how to play a C note ; this is a community far more elitist and ...) that said. >>> Max for Live is an innovation from Ableton and Cycling'74. Initiative coming from Abe's. Probability to launch somewhat ininovative thing in this market in 2009 : very few %. They did it, just like that, "DONE". And it's genious work.

Is you came on C74 forums to say such a "cuckoo" post like "Live and Max have sex then monthes later Max for Live" ... /kickban Blendton forever.

OMG, I was in full cuckoo-ish writing, sorry not having blahh about design, you know, I'm stinking far more than cuckoo's shit in design and imaging topics, and BTW, you are on a music and audio production overall place for discussion.

Please make Ableton be proud for their work because ONE they deserve it and TWO : their personnality could be affected by not even one making a track guy + another and some multiplication of pointless talking and FALSE statements about the quality involved here, as many say, "expensive".

Anyone having been a buyer should be banned from here.

We may play videogames or not, it's your problem, but here, it's talking about a professional working software, expensive if you like, and most important : doing the job perfectly.

Please think before posting shitty text involving "WTF reason to" in order to concludue by a "wise" advice and all the time, music, MUSIC ? WTF YOU CUCKOO BLENDTON ?


>>> It's as always sillly and maybe disturbing to read. Just try to wake up by catching the full of sense post in a headache making looking style.

Warm Regards.
Antoine, aka Blendton.

OS : Windows 8 Professional with Media Center - x64
Ableton Live 9 Suite (64-bit) & Ableton Suite 8 + Max for Live (32-bit)
Toshiba Qosmio F750 + lenticular glasses-free 3D
i7 2670QM 2,20GHz - 2x4GB DDR3-1333 - 5400rpm HDD

gjm
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Re: What's up with Ableton?

Post by gjm » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:16 am

[quote="fimpson”]and them seemingly not putting a link to this forum anywhere at ableton.com, as if they are embarrassed about what gets discussed here[/quote]

On the website you click ‘What is Live’ right at the very top. Half way down in a well highlighted section called ‘Community’ is a link to this forum.

Try spending your free time making music and stop worrying about website design. You might enjoy your journey better. ;)
iMac - 10.10.3 - Live 9 Suite - APC40 - Axiom 61 - TX81z - Firestudio Mobile - Focal Alpha 80's - Godin Session - Home made foot controller

Blendton
Posts: 237
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Location: France

Re: What's up with Ableton?

Post by Blendton » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:37 am

gjm wrote:[
:D :!: :!: :!:
Antoine, aka Blendton.

OS : Windows 8 Professional with Media Center - x64
Ableton Live 9 Suite (64-bit) & Ableton Suite 8 + Max for Live (32-bit)
Toshiba Qosmio F750 + lenticular glasses-free 3D
i7 2670QM 2,20GHz - 2x4GB DDR3-1333 - 5400rpm HDD

Nicknackerski
Posts: 239
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Re: What's up with Ableton?

Post by Nicknackerski » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:17 am

62349 users. Maybe 20 posts bitchin n Whinging.
Thats pretty exceptional to me. Well Done Ableton!
















:twisted:

dazzer
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Re: What's up with Ableton?

Post by dazzer » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:53 am

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Last edited by dazzer on Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

102455
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Re: What's up with Ableton?

Post by 102455 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:58 am

Nicknackerski wrote:62349 users
Correction: 62,349 members - i.e. people who've joined the forum at some point. Not necessarily licensed Live users.

There could be 62,329 ghost members, who joined on day one and never post.

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