Minimizing Track Editting Sound Quality Loss

[Danny Hard]

As I said at other thread I edit my tracks before playing on CDJs, and I have some concerns about losing sound quality in the process. I would like to minimize the quality loss the most I can. I'm gonna explain exacly what I do:

Have a track that is MP3 (44.1 khz/32-bit[float]) then import it to Adobe Audition and Export it as WAVE (44.1khz/16-bit), then import it to Ableton 8, do some cutting and BPM changes, maybe some warping, then export just the channel of the track, not master, as WAVE (44.1khz/16-bit).

Before someone says I should start the process with WAVE because WAVE is better, I know that but my concerns are about the 32-bit to 16-bit transition. If they are already WAVE that would be 16-bit to 16-bit.

I can hear a little difference between the original track and the editted one, and can see the difference of the waveform when import both on Audition. Is that normal, or am I doing something wrong?

Thanks

[sounddevisor]

You should be editing 24-bit files (or better,) not 16-bit. You will absolutely hear differences, artifacts, and general degradation if you do any type of editing (other than simple cutting and pasting) to a 16-bit file.

If you must start with an mp3, convert it to a 24-bit WAV first, then do your editing. Your results should be much better. Even better would be to keep it as a 32-bit float until you're done editing.

[Danny Hard]

You should be editing 24-bit files (or better,) not 16-bit. You will absolutely hear differences, artifacts, and general degradation if you do any type of editing (other than simple cutting and pasting) to a 16-bit file.

If you must start with an mp3, convert it to a 24-bit WAV first, then do your editing. Your results should be much better. Even better would be to keep it as a 32-bit float until you're done editing.

Hm, so you mean that I should keep it 32-bit float until the last export from ableton, and then, at this last one, export is as 24-bit?

I've read some manuals for CDJs and they all recommend 16/24-bit for WAVE tracks when playing, so I belive my final track should be 24-bit maximum.

And what is the difference between 32-bit Float and 32-bit Integer?

[Tarekith]

Don't worry about using 32bit, while techinically better, for your purposes it's eally not a factor. And you're starting from MP3's, so there's already been massive quality loss. In Live's audio preferences, set it to use 24bit 44.1kHz wavs by default. Now you can just drag the MP3 into Live directly, and it will make the wav for you in the quality you need.

Do your edits, making sure that the project tempo is EXACTLY your song tempo. Don't use warping unless you need it, and if you do, use beats mode. Since the song and project are the same tempo, even with warping on no sound quality loss will happen due to the warping in that mode. Once you're done, export it as a 16bit/44.1kHz wav, use Pow-r type 2 or triangular dither, honestly matters very little which you pick.

[Danny Hard]

Don't worry about using 32bit, while techinically better, for your purposes it's eally not a factor. And you're starting from MP3's, so there's already been massive quality loss. In Live's audio preferences, set it to use 24bit 44.1kHz wavs by default. Now you can just drag the MP3 into Live directly, and it will make the wav for you in the quality you need.

Do your edits, making sure that the project tempo is EXACTLY your song tempo. Don't use warping unless you need it, and if you do, use beats mode. Since the song and project are the same tempo, even with warping on no sound quality loss will happen due to the warping in that mode. Once you're done, export it as a 16bit/44.1kHz wav, use Pow-r type 2 or triangular dither, honestly matters very little which you pick.

I see, but when I edit I change the tempo of the track sometimes (always when the tempo is not XXX,00 so I have tracks with constant bpms, like 126,00 127,00 128,00 etc.) and use re-pitch on them so It don't distort. BPM change is's like one of the main reasons I do all this editting.

So, you mean that I don't need audition to turn mp3 to wave before importing to ableton?? I just tried to do it but they seem to be 16-bit, where do I change it? I can't find it on preferences

Thanks

[Danny Hard]

After importing some mp3 to ableton some of the tracks don't load completely. That is the reason why I use Audition to turn them to wave, cause wave always works perfectly.
I there other way of importing mp3's without having this problem of incomplete loading?

[Tarekith]

I see, but when I edit I change the tempo of the track sometimes (always when the tempo is not XXX,00 so I have tracks with constant bpms, like 126,00 127,00 128,00 etc.) and use re-pitch on them so It don't distort. BPM change is's like one of the main reasons I do all this editting.

So, you mean that I don't need audition to turn mp3 to wave before importing to ableton?? I just tried to do it but they seem to be 16-bit, where do I change it? I can't find it on preferences

Thanks

That's fine if you're using Live to change tempos then, not everyone does that in their edits. You can keep using Audition if you want, I was just trying to save you a step.

[Danny Hard]

I see, but when I edit I change the tempo of the track sometimes (always when the tempo is not XXX,00 so I have tracks with constant bpms, like 126,00 127,00 128,00 etc.) and use re-pitch on them so It don't distort. BPM change is's like one of the main reasons I do all this editting.

So, you mean that I don't need audition to turn mp3 to wave before importing to ableton?? I just tried to do it but they seem to be 16-bit, where do I change it? I can't find it on preferences

Thanks

That's fine if you're using Live to change tempos then, not everyone does that in their edits. You can keep using Audition if you want, I was just trying to save you a step.

I understand but some mp3 track don't load like they should, they just appear as 30second tracks... do you know how do I fix it so I don't need to use audition?

[Tarekith]

Try emptying your decoding cache in Live, you can find the location of it in your preferences.

[Danny Hard]

but will I lose something if I delete this CacheContent.idx file? like the warping I did on the tracks etc.

[Tarekith]

No, that's not what you want to delete. It will be a folder that has all the wav file versions of your MP3's, you can manually delete the ones you don't need anymore.

[Danny Hard]

But how deleting these wave files will make ableton stop loading new music like it is just 30 seconds lenth, when they are actually 5 ou 6 minutes?

[Tarekith]

It's just a guess, but if your decoding cache is full, maybe Live does not have room to convert the entire MP3. I run the AbletonLiveDJ.com forums, and whenever people have decoding issues cleaning out the cache usually fixes it.

[Danny Hard]

But I've been having this problem since the first time I used it, its impossible that it was full back then. I believe the problem is about mp3. Somehow some kinds of mp3 don't load properly.
I saw a guy mentioning that he installed QuickTime and the problem got fixed.. but simply installing it did not get my problem fixed lol

Any guess of what should I do?

Thanks for the help

[Tarekith]

Honestly man, this is exactly why I never use MP3s with Live. I'm out of ideas if the QuickTime install didn't help.