Getting Warp to Detect BPM Correctly

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Syncretia
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Re: Getting Warp to Detect BPM Correctly

Post by Syncretia » Sun May 12, 2013 4:18 am

Yes. You are correct. However, stems are not always perfectly cut that way, and you are not always given the BPM. Really, that's the point of this thread. I'm trying to come up with a reliable way to force Ableton to detect the BPM. In this particular case I was not given the BPM, and to make matters worse, it turns out that the kick is coming in milliseconds before the beat which made it very hard for me to guess the BPM manually.

I tried what you suggested. Sorry, but the steps you've outlined can't possibly work. It starts going awry at the 4th step, and then goes colossally kaput in the 5th step. Try it.

Here's what I did

1) Imported 6 stems
2) Selected them all
3) Select "Complex Pro" then turn Warp ON (Tried with both "Complex" and "Complex Pro"
4) Go in to each clip (because you can't set 1.1.1 on multiple clips) and set 1.1.1 at the warp marker
5) Go in to each clip and click "Warp From Here" or "Warp From Here (Straight)

After completing step 5, the BPM is wildly inaccurate. The BPM is actually 140 (or very close to it), but Ableton comes up with different BPMs for each clip (e.g. 78.59, 70.29, etc.).

However, I do have a process for this particular set of stems that DOES work. But, what I'm trying to sort out is a consistent approach which always works. Anyway, this is the procedure that works so far:

1) Imported 6 stems
2) Select the drum clip, hold shift and the select them all
3) Select "Complex Pro" then turn Warp ON
4) Move the first down beat to bar 2

Bam! Ableton detects that all stems are 140.05

But, get this...

Even though it has detected that the BPM is 140.05, if I set the global BPM to 140.05, Ableton plays the track way to fast. Yet, if I select "Master" on one of the clips which are all at 140.05, it plays the song at the correct tempo.

This is doing my head in. I just can't come up with a procedure that works all the time. It seems to me like every time I wanna warp something its a case of "just screw around until it works"
Last edited by Syncretia on Sun May 12, 2013 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Syncretia
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Re: Getting Warp to Detect BPM Correctly

Post by Syncretia » Sun May 12, 2013 4:23 am

This is so @#$#ed up!

So I went in to each of the clips and clicked "Warp From Here (Straight)" on the warp marker where the first down beat is. Now all the clips still say 140.05 BPM, yet they all are completely out of time with each other.
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SuburbanThug
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Re: Getting Warp to Detect BPM Correctly

Post by SuburbanThug » Sun May 12, 2013 5:06 am

I'm assuming you've watched the two tutorials on youtube (Mr. Bill and some other dude) on warping multiple clips. Those and Dubspots tutorial on warping whole songs got me going on the last remix I worked on. The tutorials weren't perfect solutions but they got me going in the right direction. You should be able to set 1.1.1 on all of the stems at once. That's crucial from what I remember. I didn't use "warp from here." Even though that's worked in the distant past when I worked on long audio files it was a headache when I used it recently.

I know it seems like a lot of work but I would suggest putting the work in and warping every measure if this is a serious remix. By that I mean: zoom in on every measure and set your warp marker exactly where the beat's waveform starts and delete the ones that make no sense. Warp it yourself and try different methods without getting emotionally invested in it working perfectly this time or that time. Just get it right, then you can get to work. It's cumbersome at first but good practice and you know everything will be tight. Forget complex mode for now. Work with beats mode. It actually is better for your sound overall as it's not trying to warp every millisecond of your sounds. You can change it once you have your markers set if you want to.

If you set the tempo to what Live is suggesting is your tempo and it sounds all jacked up you need to start over and try something different. Don't expect it to work perfectly because as far as I know it just won't. Anyone is welcome to chime in here and let me know I'm wrong. Make sure to set warp markers correctly and don't even mess with transient markers for now. Delete markers that are wrong and double click on the waveform to set a good one. Hold shift to drag it to a precise spot.

If you are going to make some serious edits you shouldn't mind this work. If you're just trying to move large pieces of material around and aren't going to do much audio editing, I'm sorry, I feel your pain.

Syncretia
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Re: Getting Warp to Detect BPM Correctly

Post by Syncretia » Sun May 12, 2013 6:05 am

Yeah - what you are saying makes sense. Yes, I did watch Mr. Bill's tutorial. That was definitely the best video so far.
You should be able to set 1.1.1 on all of the stems at once
How?

I guess I'm trying to figure out if Ableton ever does this reliably by itself. My theory is that if Ableton gets it pretty close, it should just be a matter of adding a couple of warp markers near the end of the track to force the transients in to place over time. But, the generally impression I'm getting is that people feel that Ableton never gets it right.

So, is that because Ableton sucks at getting it right? Or, is it just an unfounded habit that people have created over time? Or, is it because people haven't found the correct procedure for their scenario?
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vanhaze
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Re: Getting Warp to Detect BPM Correctly

Post by vanhaze » Sun May 12, 2013 8:21 am

Warping is all about choosing the right warp scenario.

1) If you know that a track to be warped has a steady bpm : but you don't know that bpm:
Set 1.1.1
Warp X bpm from here, where X is the segment bpm from the trackpart to the right of the second (auto generated faulty) warp marker.

If you DO know the bpm beforehand :
Fill in the bpm in the global tempo box
Set 1.1.1
Warp bpm from here


2) if you know that the track has an unsteady bpm:

Set 1.1.1
Warp from here
Now skip through the track and adjust placement of warp markers where needed.
(This is a drag, i know, but you can get the hang of it when practising much)

You still didn't tell if your stems come from a track thas a steady bpm or unsteady bpm.
That's vital information to choose the right warp scenario.

Believe me, i did alot of research about warping , i know what i'm talking about.
Rob van Hees
Macbook Pro 15", 8 Gig Ram, Mavericks 10.9, Novation Impulse, Maschine MKII, Live 9.1 (latest beta 64bit), Logic Pro X 10.04, Protools 11.02, just too many plugins.

beattorrent
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Re: Getting Warp to Detect BPM Correctly

Post by beattorrent » Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:44 pm

I just have a question regarding the topic, I have a track (TC - New Style) and I warped it based on this thread (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=101410) and the one from dubspot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsHnZUGl8yY), after warping the track I got 86.50bpm but when I loaded the same track in traktor I got 173bpm, so now my question is which is more accurate? did I warped it correctly or did I do something wrong? becuase it seems to me that traktor doubled the bpm.

102455
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Re: Getting Warp to Detect BPM Correctly

Post by 102455 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:41 pm

Doubling (or halving) of the BPM is quite common with beat detection. Us humans know when a track is slow or fast, but software often struggles.

JedFishGould
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Re: Getting Warp to Detect BPM Correctly

Post by JedFishGould » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:40 am

Syncretia: please note: Much more difficult to search the word live on the internet than the word Ableton, correct or not regarding the name of the software. 8O
::Jedley

Stromkraft
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Re: Getting Warp to Detect BPM Correctly

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:42 pm

beattorrent wrote: it seems to me that traktor doubled the bpm.
That's a view point of the bpm. You can help Traktor to half or double the bpm manually to your liking. You can mix a track that really is at half tempo by doubling it's bpm or vice versa, if you'd like tempo match and beat mix. I've been known to mix in tracks at triplet tempos, for example going from a Techno track to a Reggae track and back. Yeah. already with vinyl. Best used with cut mixes, but depending on the material beat mixing might work too.
Make some music!

JDWeir
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Re: Getting Warp to Detect BPM Correctly

Post by JDWeir » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:59 pm

I'm about to try and bring this old thread back to life because I've run into an issue and tried all the fixes here. So here's the scenario:

I'm buying beats (hip hop) from a producer online, Blunted Beatz. When I try and load a beat into Live, the program insists these beats are 120 BPM. When I play the metronome over top of the beat it's clear this is not the case. I'm trying to record vocals over these beats but my only problem is I can't align the choruses properly on the beat. As is, I do every chorus individually and TRY and get as close to the first take as possible. This is inconvenient of course, but when I try to just copy and paste a chorus I can't get the chorus to line up quite how my 1st take lined up. This would all be fixed if ableton knew where the instrumentals measures started and ended, (Then I could properly copy and paste choruses:) ) but it doesn't. So how do I use Live to figure out the BPM of these beats, and set the BPM as the global tempo?

Thanks for the help in advance, I hope somebody see's this

Here's a link to one of the beats mentioned above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0DI_iIthW0

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