maschine or ableton? or both?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
djgrits7
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maschine or ableton? or both?

Post by djgrits7 » Fri May 10, 2013 10:50 pm

ok guys, so i got maschine and it's loaded... also, i've had live 8 for awhile but pretty much bare bones, not a whole lot of extra instruments, etc etc... sooo, i'm at this point where i'm thinking, geez if maschine has pretty much already what ableton has, why should i go pay for the extra stuff packs in ableton? where's the difference/advantages? i'm always going to stick with ableton but my preference right now is to just bring maschine into ableton and work with that... any big stuff i'm missin out on because i'm using maschine's synths, sounds, etc etc over ableton's???

beats me
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Re: maschine or ableton? or both?

Post by beats me » Fri May 10, 2013 10:55 pm

Finally somebody on this forum has asked this question.

:x

tw1nstates
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Re: maschine or ableton? or both?

Post by tw1nstates » Sat May 11, 2013 12:43 pm

I have both.

Maschine isn't as good.
I slipped into a daze, whilst I was there I heard the most startling music, it was at once familiar and alien, reassuring and unsettling.
https://soundcloud.com/fearoftherave

Buleriachk
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Re: maschine or ableton? or both?

Post by Buleriachk » Sat May 11, 2013 3:13 pm

I have both.

(looking over my shoulder)

I think they're equal....

jlgrimes
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Re: maschine or ableton? or both?

Post by jlgrimes » Sat May 11, 2013 4:04 pm

djgrits7 wrote:ok guys, so i got maschine and it's loaded... also, i've had live 8 for awhile but pretty much bare bones, not a whole lot of extra instruments, etc etc... sooo, i'm at this point where i'm thinking, geez if maschine has pretty much already what ableton has, why should i go pay for the extra stuff packs in ableton? where's the difference/advantages? i'm always going to stick with ableton but my preference right now is to just bring maschine into ableton and work with that... any big stuff i'm missin out on because i'm using maschine's synths, sounds, etc etc over ableton's???
Two different things.

Ableton is a DAW (with emphasis in Live performance and sample mangling).

Maschine is more of a electronic music workstation geared somewhat for rap (and other electronica styles).

There is a lot of overlap and that is where a lot of confusion comes in.


Ableton has a more mouse oriented workflow which has its pros and cons. Push is supposed to solve some of this. But that said, Ableton could much easily be rocked with just a keyboard and mouse. Maschine would be a little more difficult to work with without the controller.

Maschine is designed to be worked with at the controller level.



The main thing I like about Maschine is its built in drum library which is really good. I also like the step sequencer.

I like Live better for pattern sequencing, arranging, mixing, and IMO sampling/warping loops.

Maschine has a more old school but effective approach for sample chopping and looping which can be done at the controller level. But Live has a more modern and detailed approach which I like.


Using them both is cool but for some might be redundant.


I would think of Maschine as an alternative to Drum Racks. On the surface and for speed drum Racks win. But Maschine has a certain sound with its emulation modes and have a good step sequencer and note repeat. It also makes a decent Live controller.



If you own Komplete, Maschine is also a great buy because it organize all of the sounds in komplete and merges it with its own library.

Buleriachk
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Re: maschine or ableton? or both?

Post by Buleriachk » Sat May 11, 2013 4:21 pm

I agree with jlgrimes - a good comparison.

I would just add that (for me) another of Ableton's strong points is its flawless integration of time stretching into the workflow. I have a whole lot of drum loops in .wav format, and Live allows me to change tempo on the fly, in the heat of battle just by dragging the files in (for the most part).

So far, I don't think one can do this with Maschine. Also, one can't import type 2 Midi files into Maschine (e.g., channel 10 percussion files easily, with a sound on each midi NOTE), one has to import each "note"/instrument into one of 16 Maschine "sounds" (each voice has the capability of playing 16 percussive instruments.)

(I find it crazy that NI hasn't organized its Battery drum kits into 4x4 racks for easy import to both Live drum racks AND NI "sounds" for type 2 Midi files......

But as a percussion instrument for performing with hardware control, I think Maschine has now surpassed Live and its various dedicated control surfaces .. (Although Live with nanoKontrol, nonoLive (from nativeKontrol) is a great combination with Launchpad.... except for the multiple control surface aspect)

Theo Void
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Re: maschine or ableton? or both?

Post by Theo Void » Sat May 11, 2013 4:48 pm

I have both.
I jam out and formulate idea's on the maschine. It's really good for that because you can do everything from the hard-ware, so it's really fun. I even do a bit of arrangement in Maschine.

But, Ableton is much more advanced and there are a ton of things it can do that Maschine simply cannot. One very simple example is side-chain compression. I generally create sounds, drum loops, etc in Maschine and then drag them into Live to refine and arrange them. Maschine automation is great for short, one-hit automation but not so good for progressive automation of an entire track.

Honestly, I wish Maschine were more like Live because I'd love nothing more than just use Maschine for everything. But, as it stands, I definitely use and need both. Maschine is definitely progressing toward being a full on DAW though. It now hosts VST's and the Macro's and aug-mapped 8 knobs are AMAZING!! Sample slicing and mapping is also a god send in Maschine.

You could also use Maschine as a VST in Live but I really haven't done that much so I can't really comment on it. I've heard that it is CPU intensive.

Just to clarify, I've been using Live since about 2007 and just started using Maschine so that may have infuenced my work-flow quite a bit. I'm really good at Live and super comfortable w/ it. If you feel you can do everything in Maschine, I say go for it!!! I wish I could. Maybe someday. C'mon NI!!!!!

delicioso
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Re: maschine or ableton? or both?

Post by delicioso » Sat May 11, 2013 8:16 pm

Buleriachk wrote:I would just add that (for me) another of Ableton's strong points is its flawless integration of time stretching into the workflow. I have a whole lot of drum loops in .wav format, and Live allows me to change tempo on the fly, in the heat of battle just by dragging the files in (for the most part).

So far, I don't think one can do this with Maschine.
You can do that in Maschine standalone using any plugin that does realtime timestretch like Kontakt/Reaktor. Same thing with sidechain compression. There are certain compressor plugins that lets you sidechain in Maschine standalone.

I find Live and Maschine to complement each other nicely by filling in the gaps that each lacks on its own. Also, using both doesn't have to mean using both at the same time. I often work in Maschine by itself in standalone mode and just export the stems.


TomViolenz
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Re: maschine or ableton? or both?

Post by TomViolenz » Sun May 12, 2013 10:11 am

You guys make all very good points, but I think the OP specifically mentioned that he is already using a standard version of Live 8 and wants to integrate Maschine into it.
So the question is, having Maschine and Standart Live 8, does it make good sense to upgrade to Live 9 Suite.

I'd say yes. Much better compressor and EQ aside, the Max inclusion in Suite with its LFO and Envelope follower FX (also mappable to things in Maschine!) makes it totally worth it!

(Oh, and the AAS instruments you'd gain, are also very nice.)

puzzlefactory
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Re: maschine or ableton? or both?

Post by puzzlefactory » Sun May 12, 2013 8:51 pm


Very cool videos. Thanks for sharing. 8)

Sional
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Re: maschine or ableton? or both?

Post by Sional » Sun May 12, 2013 9:15 pm

TomViolenz wrote:You guys make all very good points, but I think the OP specifically mentioned that he is already using a standard version of Live 8 and wants to integrate Maschine into it.
So the question is, having Maschine and Standart Live 8, does it make good sense to upgrade to Live 9 Suite.

I'd say yes. Much better compressor and EQ aside, the Max inclusion in Suite with its LFO and Envelope follower FX (also mappable to things in Maschine!) makes it totally worth it!

(Oh, and the AAS instruments you'd gain, are also very nice.)
Curious about how you are finding the compressor to be "much better". My experience is that I can swap one with the other and adjust some parameters to end up with pretty much the same sound.

Theo Void
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Re: maschine or ableton? or both?

Post by Theo Void » Sun May 12, 2013 10:38 pm

Probably the visual aspect of the new one

TomViolenz
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Re: maschine or ableton? or both?

Post by TomViolenz » Mon May 13, 2013 6:18 am

Theo Void wrote:Probably the visual aspect of the new one
What he said!
But also don't forget The Glue.

Rdej
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Re: maschine or ableton? or both?

Post by Rdej » Mon May 13, 2013 7:11 am

I have both and let's just say they're best friends. Anyone who think it has to be one or the other is only hurting themselves. Mastering either of these tools on their own will allow you to crush it but having both will really let you work to their strengths. I think Ableton is great if you're doing remixes of existing tracks and definitely better for planning out a full song and doing a mixdown. Maschine really excels when you just need to quickly load a kit and start jamming. Once you've mastered it you'll rarely have to touch the mouse, it's taken a while but it when you know the controller you'll do things way faster then anyone could with a mouse.

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