Midi Clock Sync Delay Issues

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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Binman_UK
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:31 am

Midi Clock Sync Delay Issues

Post by Binman_UK » Sat May 11, 2013 2:04 pm

Hi,

I'm trying to sync my Acidlab Miami and Roland TR-909 with Ableton as the master clock.
I've done this for many years but only with 1 drum machine and not 2.

I've set up 2 external instruments, with the hardware latency on the 909 external instrument set to 5ms to account for the start lag.
I've tested with the kicks off each machine and this leaves them nicely sync'ed.

So far so good... however, the problems arise when I try and adjust the Midi Clock Sync delay so that Ableton's metronome matches the kicks.

1. If I set it to -29ms and hit play then the kicks are still in sync but the metronome is out by a few ms.

2. If I adjust it on the fly (whilst it's still playing) to -26ms then it's 100% perfect (Ableton, Miami and 909 all sync'ed nicely)

3. But if I stop and start again (whilst still at -26ms) then it goes well out of time by at least 10ms. The drum machine kicks are also no longer in perfect sync even though I haven't changed their hardware latencies.

I've been doing some troubleshooting and basically, if I set the Midi Clock Sync delay to *anything* less than -29ms (even -28.5ms) then the timing goes screwy. But I need it to be -26ms for Ableton's metronome and the 2 machines to be spot on.

I get the same issue with Live 8 and Live 9, plus I've tried both USB and firewire audio interfaces.

This is driving me mental. Does anyone have any suggestions?


EDIT: I've actually found a sort of workaround. It's not ideal though. If I increase my audio interface's buffer from 4ms to 6ms then I increase the Midi Clock Sync Delay again to compensate(to -30ms), then it's all in-sync. Everything still goes weird if I go less than the -29ms "cutoff point" though.

I'd still like some help understanding and troubleshooting if anyone's reading this :)
Last edited by Binman_UK on Sun May 12, 2013 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Binman_UK
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:31 am

Re: Midi Clock Sync Delay Issues

Post by Binman_UK » Sun May 12, 2013 12:19 am

*bump*

witteredink
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:36 pm

Re: Midi Clock Sync Delay Issues

Post by witteredink » Sun May 12, 2013 8:44 am

These issues were posted in beta testing but ableton failed to reply properly and didn't even consider handling it.

Binman_UK
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:31 am

Re: Midi Clock Sync Delay Issues

Post by Binman_UK » Sun May 12, 2013 12:13 pm

witteredink wrote:These issues were posted in beta testing but ableton failed to reply properly and didn't even consider handling it.
i get the issue in live 8 and live 9 though. is it an issue in both versions?
do you perhaps have a link to any bug reports and other threads that discuss the issue?

much appreciated!

n2design
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:28 am

Re: Midi Clock Sync Delay Issues

Post by n2design » Sun May 12, 2013 3:32 pm

sounds like you need innerclock

Binman_UK
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:31 am

Re: Midi Clock Sync Delay Issues

Post by Binman_UK » Sun May 12, 2013 3:46 pm

n2design wrote:sounds like you need innerclock
to be honest, because my 909 is always exactly 5ms behind my acidlab miami due to start lag, using the "hardware latency" field in external instrument devices should yield the same effect as a the innerclock "sync shift". to be fair.. it does.

it's just that ableton starts acting weird when i set the midi clock sync delay to anything less than -29ms :).

unless you mean the sync gen? it's on my radar along with an expert sleeprs es-4 + esx-8gt gate expander.
would perhaps fix the issue but it's an expensive solution to what appears to be an ableton bug? i don't think the issue i'm having is down to jitter anyway though - my audio interface showed quite acceptable jitter of around 1ms via a midi loopback test (ableit when the system was idle).

Binman_UK
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:31 am

Re: Midi Clock Sync Delay Issues

Post by Binman_UK » Sun May 19, 2013 7:10 pm

sod it. got a sync gen. fixed!

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