SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Theo Void
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by Theo Void » Wed May 15, 2013 6:06 am

No I installed the hdd in my MacBook Pro myself. I also have a two terabyte external drive. Mostly for backups and sample storage. But most of the samples I use are on the laptop

Pasha
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by Pasha » Wed May 15, 2013 6:45 am

Theo Void wrote:No I installed the hdd in my MacBook Pro myself. I also have a two terabyte external drive. Mostly for backups and sample storage. But most of the samples I use are on the laptop
Thanks for reply!
Good to know that you record and work on your MBP 1TB 5400 RPM and you like it.
I think sometimes we are all victims of some kind of hype. SSD are the future but
we are transitioning there. I am with you. What Booting in 11 seconds makes to your life anyway?
What starting live in 7 seconds? When it's up it's up. Yes SSD makes things generally
snappier but they come at an high cost per GB. Of course that SSD would be the fastest system...
a dream to work with. I think this happens because people have instant on devices now like ipads,
phones and the like... It's a wild fast world.. nobody cares about the pleasure of a coffee or tea cup..
Of the slowness of having a sip here and there while you refinish your tracks.. :-) Romantic isn't it? Or I am simply getting older...

Best
Pasha
Apple Desktop / Laptop
Live 9 Suite,Zebra 2.6,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha

H20nly
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by H20nly » Wed May 15, 2013 5:04 pm

Pasha wrote: Is the 27 one of the 2012 models?
Do you find albeit initially a 27 too big to sit down and use for hours?
What is the best distance from the display and you? I have no experience with such big screens...
it's a 2011 model.

the large screen is awesome... the size and resolution of the screen, more than any other thing, is what made me switch from PC to this iMac. i was due for a refresh and this all-in-one with plenty of power and a screen that looks like you can dive in and swim in it was too much to walk away from. i sometimes find when a window is fully maximized that it is too big... even in Live 9 at times. so, when that happens i minimize the window a little. i like this much better than wishing it was a little bigger 8)

i have the monitor set about 2 or 3 feet back from my face... it really depends how much i lean forward. my desk is a good size and is kind of U shaped so i have controllers on my left and right. if you're looking for good ergonomics, i can't really help you. i spin my chair to fiddle with my bass or lean over to mess with a controller, drink a beer, or get up to have a smoke so i'm sort of moving around... but i'd say that if someone, or even the syle of music i was making, forced me to be more stiff/rigid and sit down for a few hours then i would be quite happy.

Donnie
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by Donnie » Wed May 15, 2013 5:55 pm

Pasha wrote:
Theo Void wrote:No I installed the hdd in my MacBook Pro myself. I also have a two terabyte external drive. Mostly for backups and sample storage. But most of the samples I use are on the laptop
Thanks for reply!
Good to know that you record and work on your MBP 1TB 5400 RPM and you like it.
I think sometimes we are all victims of some kind of hype. SSD are the future but
we are transitioning there. I am with you. What Booting in 11 seconds makes to your life anyway?
What starting live in 7 seconds? When it's up it's up. Yes SSD makes things generally
snappier but they come at an high cost per GB. Of course that SSD would be the fastest system...
a dream to work with. I think this happens because people have instant on devices now like ipads,
phones and the like... It's a wild fast world.. nobody cares about the pleasure of a coffee or tea cup..
Of the slowness of having a sip here and there while you refinish your tracks.. :-) Romantic isn't it? Or I am simply getting older...

Best
Pasha
You know, I wasnt sold on the SSD hype until I finally decided to put a Samsung 840 in my laptop. The difference is night and day. 10 second startups actually make a huge difference for both workflow and emergency situations when playing live. Huge sets in Live turn from cumbersome to non-issues. Looking back I cant believe how ignorant I was to the type of experience a SSD provides. The difference in overall performance is amazing. It's worth every penny imo.

Theo Void
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by Theo Void » Wed May 15, 2013 6:34 pm

Donnie wrote:
Pasha wrote:
Theo Void wrote:No I installed the hdd in my MacBook Pro myself. I also have a two terabyte external drive. Mostly for backups and sample storage. But most of the samples I use are on the laptop
Thanks for reply!
Good to know that you record and work on your MBP 1TB 5400 RPM and you like it.
I think sometimes we are all victims of some kind of hype. SSD are the future but
we are transitioning there. I am with you. What Booting in 11 seconds makes to your life anyway?
What starting live in 7 seconds? When it's up it's up. Yes SSD makes things generally
snappier but they come at an high cost per GB. Of course that SSD would be the fastest system...
a dream to work with. I think this happens because people have instant on devices now like ipads,
phones and the like... It's a wild fast world.. nobody cares about the pleasure of a coffee or tea cup..
Of the slowness of having a sip here and there while you refinish your tracks.. :-) Romantic isn't it? Or I am simply getting older...

Best
Pasha


You know, I wasnt sold on the SSD hype until I finally decided to put a Samsung 840 in my laptop. The difference is night and day. 10 second startups actually make a huge difference for both workflow and emergency situations when playing live. Huge sets in Live turn from cumbersome to non-issues. Looking back I cant believe how ignorant I was to the type of experience a SSD provides. The difference in overall performance is amazing. It's worth every penny imo.
I don't doubt that the performance is incredible!!! I'm quite sure it is. But, the price is simply not worth it to me. I NEED at least 700 GB. How much would a 700gb. SSD cost? $650.00? I can't justify that!! I will move to SSD when the price drops dramatically. I've been using HDD my entire life and I'm not all that un-satisfied w/ it. I'm used to it and honestly an SSD would just be a luxury.

I've looked into getting a 250 gb. SDD and putting the OS on it then replacing my optical drive w/ a big HDD. I'm not sure if that's a good solution though. Wouldn't accessing the samples from the HDD defeat the purpose. IDK. If you know or have experience let me know!!

PASHA!! I'm quite satisfied w/ my set-up at the moment. Of course I'd like more speed, who wouldn't? But my current speed is serving me well.
I'm even still running 32-bit just because it's so stable.

Pasha
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by Pasha » Wed May 15, 2013 9:05 pm

H20nly wrote:
Pasha wrote: Is the 27 one of the 2012 models?
Do you find albeit initially a 27 too big to sit down and use for hours?
What is the best distance from the display and you? I have no experience with such big screens...
it's a 2011 model.

the large screen is awesome... the size and resolution of the screen, more than any other thing, is what made me switch from PC to this iMac. i was due for a refresh and this all-in-one with plenty of power and a screen that looks like you can dive in and swim in it was too much to walk away from. i sometimes find when a window is fully maximized that it is too big... even in Live 9 at times. so, when that happens i minimize the window a little. i like this much better than wishing it was a little bigger 8)

i have the monitor set about 2 or 3 feet back from my face... it really depends how much i lean forward. my desk is a good size and is kind of U shaped so i have controllers on my left and right. if you're looking for good ergonomics, i can't really help you. i spin my chair to fiddle with my bass or lean over to mess with a controller, drink a beer, or get up to have a smoke so i'm sort of moving around... but i'd say that if someone, or even the syle of music i was making, forced me to be more stiff/rigid and sit down for a few hours then i would be quite happy.
Thanks for the detailed explanation, I like the 'drinking beer' part :-)
Your info will help me with the ergonomics as well. I have to reshuffle my desktop to find more space.
I am a Guitar and Bass Guitar guy who plays keyboards when needed. So my desk is flat (kind of Ikea Hacker I custom built from otherwise scoped Ikea furniture...quite good I would say. Simply it was built around a 20" iMac.
Moving to 27" will be kind of a big change but IMHO still doable...with some precision work.. and reposition of some stuff on the desktop. All in One attracts me like magnets, especially Apple's. The good alternative being a mini.. but there's more chance I can find space for the 27" than for the Mini + Monitor. In the weekend I'll make a try but starting the desktop cabling from scratch. Thanks for all the info!

Best
Pasha
Apple Desktop / Laptop
Live 9 Suite,Zebra 2.6,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha

Pasha
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by Pasha » Wed May 15, 2013 9:18 pm

Donnie wrote:
Pasha wrote:
Theo Void wrote:No I installed the hdd in my MacBook Pro myself. I also have a two terabyte external drive. Mostly for backups and sample storage. But most of the samples I use are on the laptop
Thanks for reply!
Good to know that you record and work on your MBP 1TB 5400 RPM and you like it.
I think sometimes we are all victims of some kind of hype. SSD are the future but
we are transitioning there. I am with you. What Booting in 11 seconds makes to your life anyway?
What starting live in 7 seconds? When it's up it's up. Yes SSD makes things generally
snappier but they come at an high cost per GB. Of course that SSD would be the fastest system...
a dream to work with. I think this happens because people have instant on devices now like ipads,
phones and the like... It's a wild fast world.. nobody cares about the pleasure of a coffee or tea cup..
Of the slowness of having a sip here and there while you refinish your tracks.. :-) Romantic isn't it? Or I am simply getting older...

Best
Pasha
You know, I wasnt sold on the SSD hype until I finally decided to put a Samsung 840 in my laptop. The difference is night and day. 10 second startups actually make a huge difference for both workflow and emergency situations when playing live. Huge sets in Live turn from cumbersome to non-issues. Looking back I cant believe how ignorant I was to the type of experience a SSD provides. The difference in overall performance is amazing. It's worth every penny imo.
Thanks for being direct and clear I appreciate that. I do not perform live with Live. When I do I play Guitar in a band so the 'on stage' faster than light speed is less needed even if I completely agree with you on this point. If I imagine a stage... the blue screen of death or the Apple beach ball... 8O you switch off and wait. Every single second I'd be sweating like Stallone in Rocky! :mrgreen: So SSD is the way to go on stage. At home you are in a less pressured environment, you can wait I think. They say that if you never have tried an SSD you can continue living without.. but when you try one.. you cannot do without anymore. I think they're right. My sets are manageable. A generic Project of mine rarely goes over 15 Tracks and only maximum 5 are real audio tracks (Vocals, Bass or Guitar). The rest is MIDI instruments. For that reason I have almost never experimented Live Projects issues. If Apple had made iMacs with 7200 RPM HDD... well I'd never started this thread...
But now those juicy (and costly) BTO SSD option for iMacs made think. However I can have the standard 5400 RPM iMac and then spend the money on an external SSD that will become 'Music Drive'..fast for Music, standard for all the rest...but it's a tough decision if I think of the next 4/5 years... :roll:

Best
Pasha
Apple Desktop / Laptop
Live 9 Suite,Zebra 2.6,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha

Pasha
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by Pasha » Wed May 15, 2013 9:30 pm

@Theo Void

Thanks for the very 'Zen' indication. Have what suites your needs. So simple. So powerful. As h20 said as well.
I have done some serious testing and research. Some friend working in IT helped as well. Reality is that IT World cheats. We have Sata II or Sata III drive interfaces capable of 384 MB/sec... but our drives can do nothing more than saturating 1 third.. at 100 MBytes per second. If you switch technology (SSD) then you can saturate the SATA bus or alternatively you can have RAID 0 disks to try that. Then it comes Thunderbolt... Again the mechanical drive is the limiting factor. With a single drive you can't go beyond 130 MB/sec and the same is about USB 3.0..
So to answer your question what counts is the technology of the drive not the bus. So put the fastest technology where you need it. Having an internal SSD can speed the system but if need access to 700GB samples to be fast than even a 7200 RPM drive will do even if an SSD would be better. However you're right they cost too much. :cry:
Too much toys make babies unhappy! :-)
Apple Desktop / Laptop
Live 9 Suite,Zebra 2.6,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha

muthafunka
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by muthafunka » Wed May 15, 2013 9:39 pm

This thread would be so much better if the title was 'LSD and recording.Good or bad'

ian_halsall
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by ian_halsall » Wed May 15, 2013 9:41 pm

I have used SSD and IMO the don't make enough difference to warrant the extra expense and weird behaviour you sometimes get with boot sector corruption.

I removed mine and went back.

H20nly
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by H20nly » Wed May 15, 2013 9:45 pm

hey Pasha one last thought... you sound as though you're thinking this iMac thing through pretty heavy;

the model i have is the mid 2011 i5. looking at the specs of the 2013 (which is an education only model)... i see that it has only a 5400 rpm drive and is missing a lot of the previously included features like the 2012 and the 2011 models that have 7200 rpm drives. you can still find those available through resellers. mine was brand new out of the box in September. the mid 2011 models have firewire, thunderbolt and an optical drive (CD/DVD), plus a SATA connector that will power an SSD expansion :idea: (the 2012/13 models don't seem to support this)

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/i ... -imac.html

the new iMacs seem to be doing the "Apple says you don't need that any more" thing... but like i mentioned... the slightly older ones are still on the market, in the box, with unused parts... just an older (and arguably better) design. it's something to think about... you can't get one from the Apple store, but you can still get one... and you can always get Apple care up to 90 days after the purchase.

TheCoil
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by TheCoil » Wed May 15, 2013 11:35 pm

I have my sample library on my traditional drive and Ableton on my SSD, when I save a project, I "collect all and save" so that the samples I'm actually using will be on my speedier drive but I don't have to have my whole library taking up precious space.

Theo Void
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by Theo Void » Thu May 16, 2013 2:10 am

TheCoil wrote:I have my sample library on my traditional drive and Ableton on my SSD, when I save a project, I "collect all and save" so that the samples I'm actually using will be on my speedier drive but I don't have to have my whole library taking up precious space.
I was looking into this too but the way I work that would fill up FAST!!

I agree that the HDD is definitely the bottle neck in the system these days and I can't wait til I can use an SSD w/o having to sell my ass on the streets and/or starve my children!!!!

It'll be a great day........indeed!

ekwipt
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by ekwipt » Thu May 16, 2013 3:04 am

Applications on a SSD

Ableton Library on a Hard Disk

Large Sample folders that you don't write to on a SSD if you can afford it (Omisphere and Kontakt for example)

Pasha
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Re: SSD and recording. Good or Bad?

Post by Pasha » Thu May 16, 2013 4:35 am

muthafunka wrote:This thread would be so much better if the title was 'LSD and recording.Good or bad'
:-)
Apple Desktop / Laptop
Live 9 Suite,Zebra 2.6,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
______________________________________
Music : http://alonetone.com/pasha

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