Vienna Ensemble Pro

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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Re: Vienna Ensemble Pro

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:15 pm

ShelLuser wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:45 pm
nonchai wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:12 pm
Currently unlike Cubase or Logic etc there seems no way of accessing MIDI ports other than 1.
So, first of all I fail to understand the relevance between this comment and this 5 year old thread. But I also question the comment itself to be honest, if you could only use one MIDI port you'd never be able to use multiple devices.

I also suspect that you meant to say channels but even that would be incorrect. For example, my Casio keyboard uses a midi channel other than 1 and I can easily use it within Live. Same applied to my MPD24 drumpad controller which sat on yet another midi channel to avoid collisions with my keyboard.

Probably needless to say; I had no issues at all using these devices within Live nor was it much of a challenge to separate incoming midi (for example making a midi channel dedicated to my mpd24 so that my keyboard couldn't trigger stuff).

So I don't quite understand where you're coming from, IMO there isn't any issue here.
I'm not in front of my setup but I think he's referring to virtual MIDI ports, not physical ones.
So a single instance of a VEP plug in, in Logic or some other DAWs can access far more than 16 MIDI channels, i.e. You get VEP 1 1-16 2 1-16 etc. This might not be the case in Live. I have VEP6, Live 10, DP10 and Logic X so later tonight I'll test it out, but I'm pretty sure that's what he means.

Personally I think VEP is a great solution to Lives CPU issues, it might not make it as efficient as Logic or DP with VEP but it does a great job.

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Re: Vienna Ensemble Pro

Post by [jur] » Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:43 am

ShelLuser is right, your probably misunderstanding something Nonchai.
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Re: Vienna Ensemble Pro

Post by [jur] » Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:45 am

Or maybe it's us (after reading Machinesworking answer)?

[edit] Or is External Instrument the answer here?
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Re: Vienna Ensemble Pro

Post by nonchai » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:51 pm

Firstly [shelluser] why on earth would I post a dishonest comment?
Secondly someone else wrote " I think he's referring to virtual MIDI ports, not physical ones. "
Yes thats correct. Cubase and Logic allow a single multitimbral type client plugin like VEP to send MIDI to more than 16 instrument channels by means of these virtual ports.

but regardless of any temptation of mine to respond to your hint at an accusation of dishonesty I will explain more - since you clearly don't understand what is being discussed here.
Do you own VEP or actually understand anything about how one operates it?.

< if you could only use one MIDI port you'd never be able to use multiple devices.
I also suspect that you meant to say channels >

NO. I meant what I wrote. See here is the thing Vienna Ensemble Pro is used to host very large collections of instruments in plugin instances - which present themselves as instrument channels. Because of the current limit in many plugins to 16 channels it means that typically a SINGLE VEP instance ( one can actually have more than one VEP "instance" operating on the same VEP server app. But I'll just stick with a scenario of where there is just one big instance being present in VEP.

This instance - in order to host and present more than 16 instruments - each accessible via MIDI - will use more than one MIDI port - EACH with 16 MIDI Channels. So for example MIDI port 1 might have 16 channels of string instruments, port 2 16 channels of winds, port 3 brass x 16 and so on.
All of this gets controlled from a SINGLE instance of the VEP client plugin inside the DAW.

Now it IS possible to run several instances of the VEP client plugin inside a DAW. And in this situation each VEP client plugin instance connects to a SEPERATE VEP "instance" on the VEP server app. This is in fact one possible solution to the 16 MIDI channel and 1 port limit.

So each VEP client plugin would only allow MIDI to be sent to port 1 and each VEP instance on the server would just use MIDI port 1 for each collection of instruments. But the trouble is - as the Vienna Ensemble Support engineers themselves will often point out - running more than one VEP "instance" on the server - and more than one CLIENT VEP plugin in a DAW presents much more load on the computers AND the network - for reasons that can't be gone into here.

So the preferred solution recommended by Vienna themselves is to run ALL the instruments in 1 single instance PER SERVER COMPUTER. And in this scenario - given that huge numbers of instruments are being hosted - this needs MIDI control via MANY. MIDI ports. For example my current setup - when using Cubase - has a single VEP instance on the server. which uses 8 MIDI ports. Giving a maximum instrument count - all accessed via a single VEP client plugin - of 8 x 16 = 128 total instruments.

This maybe confusing - but given this thread is specifically directed at Ableton users who actually own, use VEP - they will understand what I'm talking about.

VEP is used when one typically has enormous track counts of orchestral type sample library instruments and is usually operated in conjunction with huge DAW templates. The pros often have templates with over a 1000 plain MIDI tracks. With the majority of virtual instruments and sample libraries stored on one or more VEP server machine.

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Re: Vienna Ensemble Pro

Post by daxxus » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:40 pm

nonchai - I also posted a thread about Ableton Live and VEP as over the holiday break I built a Slave computer for my large Orchestral Libraries (like Spitfire Audio's products) - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=237329

Have you figured out a way to use Live with VEP's multiple MIDI port, MIDI Channel thing? Or are you also seeing that we may be stuck for now with Port 1 Channel 1-16 and that's it (per VEP server instance).

I saw you were actually asking the same questions I just recently did.

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