lol, well i'm not. And that's all i need fanboyleisuremuffin wrote:That's all you've got? You have the audacity to question anyone else's intellect and that's all you can muster? You should be ashamed of yourself.
knotkranky wrote:
FFS! I've question no one's intellect dickhead. Yer all flustered now.
leisuremuffin wrote:knotkranky wrote:
FFS! I've question no one's intellect dickhead. Yer all flustered now.
you did indeed do so and even apologized for it. I salute you for that. Unless you want to argue what exactly "you have little understanding" means.
Forget the relation, you're aggressive as all hell and a brow-beater. Now you're adjusting your ascot.leisuremuffin wrote:i think your characterization of me as rude is completely unfair in relation to the exchange we've had here. I'm not the one doing all of the name calling and spouting of unsupported claims.
Angstrom wrote: My comment about the stock presets is because (based on outcomes)I can only picture their internal discussion like this:
SPEC MEETING GUYS ! We need to bring our customers attention more to the add-on content and the added value it brings. We are competing against Apple Loops on one side and NI's sound banks on the other, we hear no end of "GarageBand with all its content is better than Live". Our partners feel that their affiliations could be better promoted by us, be made more findable, and be put into findable categories more easily, perhaps automatically, and so on. So driving more sales of packs. So what's the solution?
---
How about : we redesign the browser so that our content and our partners packs are installed directly into pre-formatted categories, that everyone will use. We'll determine which are the correct categorisations for everything and then make a big authoritative hierarchic tree and categorise everything we can. Then - put some main filters in the browser with the top 5 things which everybody looks for.
[/b]
I found this thread because you alluded to the drama and now I've skimmed through the whole thread
Don't just dismiss something someone says with a "naw....." and don't presume to educate me about the studio. Pro Tools HD sounds the same as every other DAW. Live IS good enough. FL IS good enough. You and all the other snobby "pro" engineers have just never taken the time to learn or understand their workflow and approach. I was all for being diplomatic and providing an outside looking in observation on this ridiculous argument until you quoted me and dismissed my opinion with a "naw" and some bullshit about being in a studio. I've been in many studios where they couldn't figure out how to do something in PT (time stretching, etc.) and I subsequently load the project in the laptop with Live and solve the problem. This whole Pro Tools thing is bullshit. And if Live is so inadequate, stop using it, stop buying it, and leave this forum. That's the problem with this forum- nobody wants to help anyone actually make music. They want to sit around and argue and pounce on anyone who has a different opinion or someone who doesn't know every little detail about Live because they spend their time making actual music. There's a reason I've been here since 2004 but don't have many posts: I was making music with Live (and PT, Logic, Reason, FL) and having a little success. Oh and my Pro Tools rig is sitting in a desk drawer because it sucks.knotkranky wrote:Naw, it's about what works and never crashes. Reliability is king in the studio. You'll never see live holding up recording for a serious session. You may find an exception, but Live is not good enough for a $2k+ a day sessions. No way. We don't fuss, we work.joeyfivecents wrote:I think it goes back to whatever these professionals learned first and what was dominating the studio market back in the early days (pretty much Pro Tools). If the situation was reversed and everyone knew Live first, this fanboys/professional/plinker conversation wouldn't even exist. I've made money in Pro Tools and Logic (when I lived in Nashville), released 2 decent records, and gotten a few placements on tv and radio. That being said, if I had to choose between all DAWs whether it was a money gig or not- right now it would be a toss up between Reason, Live, and FL. People use the big boy DAWs because that's what they know and that's what everyone else in the industry is telling them to use. Oh and, long live plinkers! And fanboys for that matter- at least their glasses are half full.
Pro tools HD is the best sounding , most reliable studio program on the market. It's proprietary for a reason. Quality control. And I'm no fanboy
Agreed, good post. and much of my points have been swept up in arguing trying to get back to my point. I'm just not very good at it. My intentions are to protest in a wide swath. It has it;s disadvantages. The fighting from fanboy number one has done it's work. He's good, lol. Regardless, the forum environment is not healthy for power-users. gearslutz is the best example where top shakers and movers drop in and lay down their wisdom and critiques. It's not a software forum, but it shows how levels of users can actually interact positively. This place was sort of birthed on trollers and still carries that torch, lol. My passion is directed at abelton first, and that's not unreasonable. It's just that one has to walk an endless gauntlet. I use fanboy as a derogatory term that I may have redefined. It's not to be confused with fan.The Finn wrote:@ knotkranky:
Hmm, I am generally positive around Ableton but I am fully prepared to accept that it can't do what fully featured studio DAWs like Protools and Cubase can do. I have played around on both, and I personally would never use them; they don't help me do what I want to do which is to be experimental and creative with music. And were I to be an audio engineer etc I would not use Live for the stuff that Cubase and Protools are best at. That would be silly.
The question is whether there are important places where Live falls down as a *creative* tool. If I want to do a performance of my music, using Live, what are the actual issues I should be worried about? And I still don't have a clear idea just what the problems are. I hear talk of PDC, but personally plugin delays have not been a problem for me. I hear some people have objections to the way they have done session automation; but I haven't heard what a better way would look like.
All thus stuff about fanboys and shutting the smart talk down does make things any clearer. It just leads to flame wars and insults which doesn't illuminate the issue much.
I think studio professionnals often bitch about finding their favourite plugin in too long dropdown menu-lists and this browser does that really well if you just know the name of what your looking for...SuburbanThug wrote:This is why the browser does not work well for a studio but works fine for the home user and why implementation of Max/MSP or the Glue compressor into the Suite package takes precedence over Plugin Delay Compensation and Dual Monitor Support.
leisuremuffin wrote:ok, again, here's my problem, "It's bratty as fuck" doesn't mean anything. I'm pretty sure i have more hours on live than you, and like i said, i've been using it everyday for a long stretch right now. I have some complaints, but reliability is not one of them. Also, what does "fanboys don't care" mean? Again, who are fanboys, what makes you think that they don't care about reliability, and why does that even matter? I don't see any proof that it does. You claim that because really dumb people buy the software and don't care if it works, ableton gets to put out a broken piece of software and walk off to the bank chuckling about stupid fanboys. That is ridiculous. Yes, Ableton is a business. Yes, Ableton wants to make money. But it is not an effective strategy to sell people a shitty product. If you sell them a shitty product, they wont spend any more money on it. If Ableton is delivering what you consider to be an inferior product, it isn't because they are trying to do it on purpose as a business strategy.knotkranky wrote:As a solid platform, It barely matures. It's always bratty as all fuck. Fanboys don't care tho.leisuremuffin wrote:People buying the software, pros or not, is what builds the capital that affords ableton to develop better stuff for all of us to use. Do you really think that live isn't getting better every release?
knotkranky wrote:I don't want more features,It's already an 89 blade swiss army knife. i want a mature solid Ableton Live platform that doesn't aggravate me every 'new features' release. In comparison to other music software, it really stands out in this regard,leisuremuffin wrote: Would live really be better if only the features you thought were important were added and in the order that you deem correct? why?
First of all, i don't think you know too much about me. I used to argue passionately against the addition of new features that i didn't want. I used to say that i would prefer a scalpel to a swiss army knife. But the truth is, some of those features that i didn't want ended up being pretty cool. I now use some of those features every day! In my opinion, live is not suffering from horrible feature bloat. It has way less "features" and clutter than something like logic, which is so ugly in that regard.
Please qualify how live is bad compared to other music software. What other software? Just because you say it over and over doesn't make it true. What is specifically so bad?
So put it in context for me. What is your point? Again, you are name calling and finger pointing, but you aren't presenting anything that looks like an argument. You say a whole bunch of shit, and then say, "i never said that." I don't understand why you think that you should be able to just say unqualified shit like "live is bratty as all fuck" while taking an attitude of "i'm so much better than you" without anyone questioning you. Seriously, its not just me, look at the way you act when you talk to other people. Nobody fucking cares how great of an engineer you are, bro. Nobody likes people who respond to an opinion with "No, you're to dumb to understand. I'm a pro. Pros can never do that because were busy being pros." It's rude, it's arrogant, and since you don't have any real argument, it's incredibly fucking lame.knotkranky wrote:I never said that, that's not what i'm communicating, you have no ears, you don't consider the context, you cherry pick the best car wreck you can put together, you are king of the fanboys and that evidence is overwhelming. You are the central cpu for the Live-Borg. Resistance is most futile to say the least. Yes, max is truly fucking awesome you nutter.leisuremuffin wrote: I just don't see any evidence that amateur users are holding back the development of the app, or unduly watering down the feature pool. Max for live is a pretty big deal and thats not a feature that was added for plinkers.
do you get it yet?
It's especially frustrating that you are admitting to not being a heavy user of the software, How are you telling me, the guy who uses it every day, how bad it is and how much you know better when you aren't using the software as much?
