Operator Vs Analog

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Jopke
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Operator Vs Analog

Post by Jopke » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:57 am

Are there situations where it might be good to use Analog over Operator? As far as I can tell Operator is just more powerful with more capabilities.
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Tone Deft
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Re: Operator Vs Analog

Post by Tone Deft » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:49 am

apples and oranges.

Operator is an FM synth, Analog is a virtual analog synth.

IMO FM synthesis is tougher to learn but gets you really crazy sounds faster.

go play with them, they're totally different animals.
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Jopke
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Re: Operator Vs Analog

Post by Jopke » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:08 am

ok thanks, I'm trying to learn this stuff from the ground up and I can't really even tell the difference between the two yet.
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trevox
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Re: Operator Vs Analog

Post by trevox » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:41 am

FM synthesis is vastly more complicated than subtractive synthesis. Often when people make sounds using an FM synth, it is not as if they know exactly how to make a certain sound - more of a case of playing around with it until it sounds good or even more often, slightly tweaking presets (which of course is fine!). If you really want to understand how it works and are learning from the ground up, I would definitely look at subtractive first as it will teach you how the various components that make up a synth work and how they interact with each other. With that understanding, you could then enter the world of FM synthesis and it should be a lot less daunting. Adding to that, the type of synthesis you use really depends on the type of sounds you want to create. Understanding which synth suits your needs at a given time comes with the experience.

Another tip is to find a preset you like and reverse engineer the patch to a very simple starting point. This will help a lot in understanding what elements provide the characteristic of that sound. Then you can use that same starting point to create your own patches based on what you've learned. Along with some experimentation - that's usually where the interesting sounds come from!

Best of luck

rluk
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Re: Operator Vs Analog

Post by rluk » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:11 pm

All of the above is true, but I think Operator can wield great results by just mocking around. Like they said when they launched it, it truly is a "fun" synth to play with.

outsidesys
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Re: Operator Vs Analog

Post by outsidesys » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:27 am

Let's not forget that Operator can be a 4 oscillator subtractive synth. And although Analog and Operator compliment each other, if I had to pick between the two, it would be Operator.

wjbuchanan
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Re: Operator Vs Analog

Post by wjbuchanan » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:49 pm

outsidesys wrote:Let's not forget that Operator can be a 4 oscillator subtractive synth. And although Analog and Operator compliment each other, if I had to pick between the two, it would be Operator.
I use Operator for this instead of Analog, the filters sound better to me...I also use it in what I call the "hybrid" mode where I use two operators, each modulated by a separate operator.

Using envelopes and the LFO on the modulating operators makes it sound like an unstable vintage synth!

I've tried and tried but I just don't like the sound of Analog for some reason, Operator sounds much more "analog" to me!

The SVF filter is particularly good...am I right in saying that some Moogs or Sequential Circuits synths used them?

I've just purchased a TI Snow so that I can get better physical control of parameters, but if I hadn't done this, Operator would continue to be my all time favourite synth.

Quinnx
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Re: Operator Vs Analog

Post by Quinnx » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:23 pm

It seem most people dont seem to grasp how fm works or what the concept is and the only way to get a result is by chance..

There are plenty of tutorials out that that will try explain it to you but they seem complicated than they need to be..

HERE IS A SIMPLE EXPLANATION:

You start with 1 operator which is your base wave
adding a 2nd operator adds modulation which results in adding modulating high frequencies the result is the sound becomes brighter.

Depending on the modulation wave used the character of that brightness will change which can also be effected by the pitch of the modulating wave.
Everything after that is just the same as analog where you use envelope to control amplitude of either parts to change the sound over time.

login
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Re: Operator Vs Analog

Post by login » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:40 pm

Operator can do substractive, FM and some wavetable. It's filters sound better. Operator wins hands down.

Neoether of them do the "analog emulation" that well in comparission to today stuff live DIVA or Lush.

Johnisfaster
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Re: Operator Vs Analog

Post by Johnisfaster » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:46 pm

login wrote:Operator can do substractive, FM and some wavetable. It's filters sound better. Operator wins hands down.

Neoether of them do the "analog emulation" that well in comparission to today stuff live DIVA or Lush.
I've been a big fan of Operator since forever, but wavetable? am I missing something?
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jlgrimes
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Re: Operator Vs Analog

Post by jlgrimes » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:21 am

Jopke wrote:Are there situations where it might be good to use Analog over Operator? As far as I can tell Operator is just more powerful with more capabilities.

Analog would definitely be easier to learn on for someone starting off. FM synthesis is pretty difficult especially for someone who is new to synthesis.


Generally you would use subtractive "Analog" for more "warmer/chewier type of sounds" and FM for more harder/colder/metallic type of stuff but you can also get some pretty warm sounding analog tones (especially synth brass) with FM if you know what you are doing.

Operator has the capability to produce a wider range of sounds than Analog but that said, most common synth sounds are probably easier to do with Analog.

Michael Hatsis
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Re: Operator Vs Analog

Post by Michael Hatsis » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:30 am

I would say a better question would be " If I use sampler do i need analog "
As everyone has mentioned, FM is different- and operator is an amazingly designed synth on top of that, but if I wanted a purely subtractive synth, I would just find some waveforms and use Sampler. Way more flexible than analog and analog's filters are so harsh sounding to my ears...the mod capabilities are very limited as well...
Sampler is just a fun sound mangling tool

Mike

Tarekith
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Re: Operator Vs Analog

Post by Tarekith » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:17 am

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Quinnx
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Re: Operator Vs Analog

Post by Quinnx » Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:30 pm

" If I use sampler do i need analog "
If you have a multisample you will get away with sampler/simpler
but if you have only a single sample your limited to how far you can go on the keyboard
before it starts to break down especially at higher pitch.
This is where normal analogue/Fm synthesis excels because your generating the wave across all pitch which means the sound is pure and hi resolution across the entire scale.

BoddAH
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Re: Operator Vs Analog

Post by BoddAH » Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:19 pm

Operator can replace Analog in theory if you don’t even bother using FM synthesis and just treat the 4 operators as (very flexible) operators. All the basic waveforms are there and then some more. You can even design your own additive-synthesis style.

That being said. Two things still make me wonder:

How are Operator’s filters modeled? Are they mathematically “perfect” clean filters or are they still modeled with analogue behavior in mind?

How fares Analog’s VA architecture by today’s standards? Is it even useful to use Analog in addition to Operator just for the supposed “analogue warmth” that’s probably unconvincing and based on outdated DSP in the first place?

I’m asking because I use mainly Operator and barely touched Analog since many people on these forum and elsewhere say it’s ridiculously outdated.

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