Trying to find that perfect distortion

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
del64
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:22 pm

Trying to find that perfect distortion

Post by del64 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:32 pm

Hello,

Im new to Ableton and my Scarlet 2i2, but I am picking up rather quickly on learning (here is a sample of my work after about 3 weeks of learning https://soundcloud.com/delaney64/adrift-in-the-fog )

These effects are nice but I am more of a metal / thrash type of person. I have had some difficulty in experimenting with the effects. For example, if I do not add an amp to my guitar setting, there are two sounds produced simultaneously , one clean the other with the effect.

On top of fixing that issue, what would be the best settings to get that thrashy metal sound? I would really like to start recording some of my other songs.

Thanks!

El Epho
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:10 am
Location: Southest Westest Arizona

Re: Trying to find that perfect distortion

Post by El Epho » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:41 pm

del64 wrote:Hello,

Im new to Ableton and my Scarlet 2i2, but I am picking up rather quickly on learning (here is a sample of my work after about 3 weeks of learning https://soundcloud.com/delaney64/adrift-in-the-fog )

These effects are nice but I am more of a metal / thrash type of person. I have had some difficulty in experimenting with the effects. For example, if I do not add an amp to my guitar setting, there are two sounds produced simultaneously , one clean the other with the effect.

On top of fixing that issue, what would be the best settings to get that thrashy metal sound? I would really like to start recording some of my other songs.

Thanks!
Outboard amp modeler ... Line 6 or whatever. Pile up your fave pedals with the modeler to create the foundation sound that you record into Live. Then tweak the piss out of it once you have it in the box.

OR.

Get a VST program designed for guitars to do the same thing as described above. But I'm not sure you're going to get a good convincing mega-gain guitar tone with what Live has going on as processors. That's why I suggested using tools made for that specific job. Then once you've created the foundation sound, use Live for it's strong suits ... warpage!
carpe diem bitches, die falling forward!

del64
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:22 pm

Re: Trying to find that perfect distortion

Post by del64 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:02 pm

El Epho wrote:
del64 wrote:Hello,

Im new to Ableton and my Scarlet 2i2, but I am picking up rather quickly on learning (here is a sample of my work after about 3 weeks of learning https://soundcloud.com/delaney64/adrift-in-the-fog )

These effects are nice but I am more of a metal / thrash type of person. I have had some difficulty in experimenting with the effects. For example, if I do not add an amp to my guitar setting, there are two sounds produced simultaneously , one clean the other with the effect.

On top of fixing that issue, what would be the best settings to get that thrashy metal sound? I would really like to start recording some of my other songs.

Thanks!
Outboard amp modeler ... Line 6 or whatever. Pile up your fave pedals with the modeler to create the foundation sound that you record into Live. Then tweak the piss out of it once you have it in the box.

OR.

Get a VST program designed for guitars to do the same thing as described above. But I'm not sure you're going to get a good convincing mega-gain guitar tone with what Live has going on as processors. That's why I suggested using tools made for that specific job. Then once you've created the foundation sound, use Live for it's strong suits ... warpage!


So you are saying plug everything as usual and place the output through my interface? Sorry I am very new to music production lol.

My interface did come with some plugins as well but I do not think they provide the functionality I require. What VST program would you recommend?

El Epho
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:10 am
Location: Southest Westest Arizona

Re: Trying to find that perfect distortion

Post by El Epho » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:16 pm

If you have guitar pedals and an amplifier, set it all up as you normally do to jam with. Either use the "line out" of your amp or use a DI to tap into the amp's output to the speaker cab, then send THAT signal into your interface and record that sound. Then use that sound as the foundation to warp all nasty and funkified and whatever in Live.

You say you are "into" shred sounds. What type of gear do you normally use to make metal tones with your guitar? Tell me about that first and I'll try to help you from there.


del64 wrote:
El Epho wrote:
del64 wrote:Hello,

Im new to Ableton and my Scarlet 2i2, but I am picking up rather quickly on learning (here is a sample of my work after about 3 weeks of learning https://soundcloud.com/delaney64/adrift-in-the-fog )

These effects are nice but I am more of a metal / thrash type of person. I have had some difficulty in experimenting with the effects. For example, if I do not add an amp to my guitar setting, there are two sounds produced simultaneously , one clean the other with the effect.

On top of fixing that issue, what would be the best settings to get that thrashy metal sound? I would really like to start recording some of my other songs.

Thanks!
Outboard amp modeler ... Line 6 or whatever. Pile up your fave pedals with the modeler to create the foundation sound that you record into Live. Then tweak the piss out of it once you have it in the box.

OR.

Get a VST program designed for guitars to do the same thing as described above. But I'm not sure you're going to get a good convincing mega-gain guitar tone with what Live has going on as processors. That's why I suggested using tools made for that specific job. Then once you've created the foundation sound, use Live for it's strong suits ... warpage!


So you are saying plug everything as usual and place the output through my interface? Sorry I am very new to music production lol.

My interface did come with some plugins as well but I do not think they provide the functionality I require. What VST program would you recommend?
carpe diem bitches, die falling forward!

memes_33
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Re: Trying to find that perfect distortion

Post by memes_33 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:44 pm

camel crusher is my favorite free distortion VST
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El Epho
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:10 am
Location: Southest Westest Arizona

Re: Trying to find that perfect distortion

Post by El Epho » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:57 pm

memes_33 wrote:camel crusher is my favorite free distortion VST
I want to start getting into bizarr oddball ring mod/modulated type VST sounds for my guitar, myself. Any suggestions? Maybe a new thread for that ....
carpe diem bitches, die falling forward!

memes_33
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Re: Trying to find that perfect distortion

Post by memes_33 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:00 am

sorry, no. not a huge fan of ring modulation for whatever reason
Hip-Hop, Breakbeat, Glitch, IDM, Dub, & Mashups! Go to:
http://memes.bandcamp.com
http://www.soundcloud.com/memes_33

El Epho
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:10 am
Location: Southest Westest Arizona

Re: Trying to find that perfect distortion

Post by El Epho » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:05 am

memes_33 wrote:sorry, no. not a huge fan of ring modulation for whatever reason
That was just an example, I'm meaning any kind of "experimental" sounds. I have boatloads of conventional distortion units from digital modeling, hand made solid state, tube, and so on. Recently I've been into experimental guitar sounds.

But that isn't helping the OP now is it!

(OP) Back on topic here, let me know what it is you have going on and we'll take it from there.
carpe diem bitches, die falling forward!

del64
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:22 pm

Re: Trying to find that perfect distortion

Post by del64 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:23 am

I am basically into that high-gain sound but also have a strong bass sound. I guess a good example would be how August Burns Red guitars sound. Every time I attempt to create that with my amp (which I use since I cant find my pedals -.- ) I get a ton of noise and it doesn't sound right.

edit: I have a 100W fender FM212 DSP

El Epho
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:10 am
Location: Southest Westest Arizona

Re: Trying to find that perfect distortion

Post by El Epho » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:08 am

del64 wrote:I am basically into that high-gain sound but also have a strong bass sound. I guess a good example would be how August Burns Red guitars sound. Every time I attempt to create that with my amp (which I use since I cant find my pedals -.- ) I get a ton of noise and it doesn't sound right.

edit: I have a 100W fender FM212 DSP
Well, 1st off, you're not going to get a good high gain distortion sound out of a Fender anything. I like Fender stuff, I have a 100 watt Fender head myself. But they're just not made for high gain distortion sounds ... it's just the wrong kind of design. And I'm pretty sure you're not going to have much success with anything in the Live FX either.

I am unfamiliar with that "Camel Crusher" VST that memes_33 suggested, but since it is free you may as well give it a shot.

You can't find your pedals? Uh ... ok. I'm not sure I even want to know what went on with that! Geez. So yea .. anyhow ... you may wish to give that Camel Killer thing a shot, It's free.

Is it a safe guess that you're using some free version of Live as well?
carpe diem bitches, die falling forward!

El Epho
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:10 am
Location: Southest Westest Arizona

Re: Trying to find that perfect distortion

Post by El Epho » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:18 am

Yea ... ok ... so .. um .. no. Fender = not.

Ok, I listened to a little of August Burns Red .... no way in ten thousand years will you ever get "chunk" out of a Fender. It's just not happening. It takes very specific processing to produce that type of sound.

You may want to look into a used Line 6 Pocket POD. New those things are about $110, so a used one might go for about $75. It will most likely have the proper stuff to get you part way, if not all the way there. There's a POD program called "Insane" that nearly every POD or Spider made by Live 6 has ever had. It is total high gain stuff. You may also find some free VST that will do it. But a Fender is just not ever going to make that type of sound. It takes several gain stages, very specific EQing, and so on to create that.

Live might do it, but you need to use a number of gain stages or amp simulators to get there. It also takes a "scooped" EQ setting so you'll have to use some really heavy EQ settings (loads of low end, around 200 hz, and loads of upper mids and highs, with a scooped out middle).

But you have to run one amnp simulator, into another amp simulator, into aonother amp simulator to sortof "fake up" a multi gain stage setup to produce high gain sounds. The amps that guitarists and producers use to make those type of sounds usually have several gain stages, each gain stage overdriving the living piss out of the next one.

What software are you running? Your guitar? How long have you been doing all of this stuff?
carpe diem bitches, die falling forward!

SpeedKing
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:51 pm
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Trying to find that perfect distortion

Post by SpeedKing » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:28 am

https://soundcloud.com/user646823035/wo ... 5-november

https://soundcloud.com/user646823035/wo ... 3-may-2012

https://soundcloud.com/user646823035/wo ... -2-18may12

https://soundcloud.com/user646823035/dr ... elings-too

https://soundcloud.com/user646823035/el ... etal-shred

https://soundcloud.com/user646823035/tr ... intro-test

Hey dude, I'm in the same boat. I have Ableton, Scarlett 18i6, and like thrash, speed and power metal (and melodic electronica/trance). I have Superior Drummer as my drums and I use GuitarPro5 as my VST distortions. I've linked some songs above to let you hear a few distortions. I know which rhythm sounds and lead sounds I like best. For the lead sound, check out the 5th link.

Anyway, I enjoy what I have, and I think it sounds pretty good, and I think I've gotten decent at mixing as the last 17 months with Ableton has progressed.

So yeah, GuitarPro5 is good I think. Let me know if you have any specific questions, or want to me to make a file where I just go through some default distortions or something. I could do that if it would help, no prob.
Last edited by SpeedKing on Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

El Epho
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:10 am
Location: Southest Westest Arizona

Re: Trying to find that perfect distortion

Post by El Epho » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:38 am

SpeedKing wrote:https://soundcloud.com/user646823035/wo ... 5-november

https://soundcloud.com/user646823035/wo ... 3-may-2012

https://soundcloud.com/user646823035/wo ... -2-18may12

https://soundcloud.com/user646823035/dr ... elings-too

https://soundcloud.com/user646823035/el ... etal-shred

https://soundcloud.com/user646823035/tr ... intro-test

Hey dude, I'm in the same boat. I have Ableton, Scarlett 18i6, and like thrash, speed and power metal (and melodic electronica/trance). I have Superior Drummer as my drums and I use GuitarPro5 as my VST distortions. I've linked some songs above to let you hear a few distortions. I know which rhythm sounds and lead sounds I like best. For the lead sound, check out the 5th link.

Anyway, I enjoy what I have, and I think it sounds pretty good, and I think I've gotten decent at mixing as the last 17 months with Ableton has progressed.
^^ What he said.
carpe diem bitches, die falling forward!

daddytang
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:59 pm

Re: Trying to find that perfect distortion

Post by daddytang » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:08 am

Soundtoys decapitator is stunning. Give it a shot.

del64
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:22 pm

Re: Trying to find that perfect distortion

Post by del64 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:05 pm

Unfortunately I know this fender isnt the best or at least my style, it was a christmas gift like 6 years ago. I finally graduated college and have a decent job so I can put some money towards a better pedal or something.

I have never been very knowledgeable about equipment since I always just took what I could use / get at the time. I am not sure what to purchase.

I have guitar pro 5 lol I never knew you could use their plugins.

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