Why ableton is obsolete in multicore efficiency.

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
artpunk
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Re: Why ableton is obsolete in multicore efficiency.

Post by artpunk » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:01 am

Guillermo Barrancos wrote:This thread jumps out the most: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=172654

What is striking is that Ableton completely ignores this. No official comment anywhere in any of these threads.

I guess, seeing how they are handling Push and it´s fiasco. No surprise here. /shrug

Bitwig needs to launch sooner than later and massive amounts of people jumping ship.
Maybe then Ableton will finally get a wake up call and snap out of their sheer arrogance and go back to their roots and start interacting again with their customers.
If bitwig launched now I would not be 'jumping ship' as you put it. As Timothy asks "What Fiasco?"
This forum gets top marks for storm in a teacup posts. :roll:

“... it was just to make an average listener go: ‘What the fuck is this?’ That’s a real inspiration for me and something that I will explore more on upcoming recordings.”
- Wally De Backer (Gotye) quoting Ween's intention behind making records

Guillermo Barrancos
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Re: Why ableton is obsolete in multicore efficiency.

Post by Guillermo Barrancos » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:25 am

artpunk wrote:
Guillermo Barrancos wrote:This thread jumps out the most: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=172654

What is striking is that Ableton completely ignores this. No official comment anywhere in any of these threads.

I guess, seeing how they are handling Push and it´s fiasco. No surprise here. /shrug

Bitwig needs to launch sooner than later and massive amounts of people jumping ship.
Maybe then Ableton will finally get a wake up call and snap out of their sheer arrogance and go back to their roots and start interacting again with their customers.
If bitwig launched now I would not be 'jumping ship' as you put it. As Timothy asks "What Fiasco?"
This forum gets top marks for storm in a teacup posts. :roll:
Ahh come on now.
People waiting for more than 4 months for a product they pre-ordered.
Retailers that yet have to receive a first shipment.
Unlucky people that ended up with a defective unit having to wait 3 months+ to get a replacement.
But whatever.

And regarding Bitwig. It´s good for all of us. It would mean finally some competition against Ableton.
Right now Ableton Live has no real competition and hence Ableton´s grown arrogancy over the years.
They can do whatever they want, treat us how they want... as there is no rival product.
When Bitwig launches, that is finally going to change.

artpunk
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Re: Why ableton is obsolete in multicore efficiency.

Post by artpunk » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:59 am

Guillermo Barrancos wrote: Ahh come on now.
People waiting for more than 4 months for a product they pre-ordered.
Retailers that yet have to receive a first shipment.
Unlucky people that ended up with a defective unit having to wait 3 months+ to get a replacement.
But whatever.

And regarding Bitwig. It´s good for all of us. It would mean finally some competition against Ableton.
Right now Ableton Live has no real competition and hence Ableton´s grown arrogancy over the years.
They can do whatever they want, treat us how they want... as there is no rival product.
When Bitwig launches, that is finally going to change.
I agree that competition is a good thing, however Bitwig has not even been launched, so it may have it's issues too. Hopefully not, but that is yet to be seen. Regarding Push, there is another party (Akai) involved but yes, Ableton's communication could certainly have been much better, no argument. I was a lucky pre-order customer who received mine a few months ago & it is great, but I can imagine the frustration that people still waiting for theirs must be experiencing.

Having said all this, I still think most complaints posted in this forum are a storm in a teacup, but I have been working as a nurse for over 30 years, 11 of those in the neurosurgical field and the last 13 in the Emergency Department and have seen my fair share of life and death situations, not to mention people experiencing real suffering, real problems, so perhaps my perspective is different to other people.

:?

“... it was just to make an average listener go: ‘What the fuck is this?’ That’s a real inspiration for me and something that I will explore more on upcoming recordings.”
- Wally De Backer (Gotye) quoting Ween's intention behind making records

Donnie
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Re: Why ableton is obsolete in multicore efficiency.

Post by Donnie » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:20 pm

Guillermo Barrancos wrote:And regarding Bitwig. It´s good for all of us. It would mean finally some competition against Ableton.
Right now Ableton Live has no real competition and hence Ableton´s grown arrogancy over the years.
They can do whatever they want, treat us how they want... as there is no rival product.
When Bitwig launches, that is finally going to change.
Totally agree, its time for someone to put a little pressure on Ableton. Something tells me that Bitwigs release is the first step in forcing Ableton to incorporate some of the commonly requested functionality that we haven't been seeing any movement on over the years. Competition is good!

Nokatus
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Re: Why ableton is obsolete in multicore efficiency.

Post by Nokatus » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:38 pm

timothyallan wrote:I've got 24 available hyperthreaded cores in this Mac Pro and Live only uses 1 of them when rendering. 7 minute tracks sometimes take 20 minutes to render.
This is one of those actual, real improvements I figured there would OBVIOUSLY be in Live 9. When crunching on a project, deadline imminent, bouncing renders back and forth with a creative team, it's just silly having to wait multiple times the actual project length if you want to make last moment mix adjustments or whatever.

It's like...

"Yeah, sorry, it's still rendering."
"WTF, even the track itself isn't this long!"
"Yeah, well I used Ableton Live for this."

jlgrimes
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Re: Why ableton is obsolete in multicore efficiency.

Post by jlgrimes » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:04 am

Donnie wrote:
Guillermo Barrancos wrote:And regarding Bitwig. It´s good for all of us. It would mean finally some competition against Ableton.
Right now Ableton Live has no real competition and hence Ableton´s grown arrogancy over the years.
They can do whatever they want, treat us how they want... as there is no rival product.
When Bitwig launches, that is finally going to change.
Totally agree, its time for someone to put a little pressure on Ableton. Something tells me that Bitwigs release is the first step in forcing Ableton to incorporate some of the commonly requested functionality that we haven't been seeing any movement on over the years. Competition is good!
Ableton still will have a good amount of time.

Bitwig won't be a viable threat until maybe 2.0. It popularity right now is mainly Ableton users than anything and 1.0 will have some feature omissions, bugs, and lack of 3rd party controller support until they really get a good userbase to really put their product to use in real life situations.

Don't know of really any DAW that gets it perfect on 1.0.

That said it will most likely put more pressure on the Abe's to make more improvements and innovations.

timothyallan
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Re: Why ableton is obsolete in multicore efficiency.

Post by timothyallan » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:16 am

Nokatus wrote:
timothyallan wrote:I've got 24 available hyperthreaded cores in this Mac Pro and Live only uses 1 of them when rendering. 7 minute tracks sometimes take 20 minutes to render.
This is one of those actual, real improvements I figured there would OBVIOUSLY be in Live 9. When crunching on a project, deadline imminent, bouncing renders back and forth with a creative team, it's just silly having to wait multiple times the actual project length if you want to make last moment mix adjustments or whatever.

It's like...

"Yeah, sorry, it's still rendering."
"WTF, even the track itself isn't this long!"
"Yeah, well I used Ableton Live for this."

Yup, I can't count the number of times where I've gone way over time (and budget) just waiting for renders. If the client wants a vocal up/vocal down/acapella and instrumental version + a radio edit, that can be 2-3 hours of just me sitting doing nothing while I wait for them to render. If they come back a week later and say, "Oh, can you just add a bit more verb onto the vocal", that's another 2 hours while I render them all again. I -could- render in realtime, but then the oversampling when rendering feature in my plugin's doesn't kick in.

At one point I kept multiple versions of Live on my machine so I could load one up while another one was rendering. With the new folder structure though, preference files get buggered so I can't do that any more :(

eyeknow
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Re: Why ableton is obsolete in multicore efficiency.

Post by eyeknow » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:14 am

For better or worse, I'd like to give my take.

When loading a "track" (whatever that is) live can take a crapload of CPU space. This doesn't mean in my case that it's the end of the road. In fact, if I load a chain that takes 50% CPU, I can usually load MANY more instances of the same thing and the CPU meter says "50%"

Weird, yeah, I think so. But it's how live works.

I've got projects with the MOST intensive amp sims and I can get many many tracks and overall, the CPU stays the same.

Again, it's NOT optimal, but I felt the need to address this for anyone who'd like to read.

lesha
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Re: Why ableton is obsolete in multicore efficiency.

Post by lesha » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:08 pm

Live 9 uses only 4 out of my 6 cores... (AMD FX-6300) :roll:
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

cotdagoo
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Re: Why ableton is obsolete in multicore efficiency.

Post by cotdagoo » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:28 pm

9.1 has multicore exporting..

timothyallan
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Re: Why ableton is obsolete in multicore efficiency.

Post by timothyallan » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:20 pm

cotdagoo wrote:9.1 has multicore exporting..
SUCH a huge time saver for me!

kitekrazy
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Re: Why ableton is obsolete in multicore efficiency.

Post by kitekrazy » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:12 pm

lesha wrote:Live 9 uses only 4 out of my 6 cores... (AMD FX-6300) :roll:
Just curious, how are you liking that processor? I think about getting one because it seems a lot of bang for the buck.

ilya.soloviev
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Re: Why ableton is obsolete in multicore efficiency.

Post by ilya.soloviev » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:39 am

kitekrazy wrote:
lesha wrote:Live 9 uses only 4 out of my 6 cores... (AMD FX-6300) :roll:
Just curious, how are you liking that processor? I think about getting one because it seems a lot of bang for the buck.
A friend of mine have it. Its twice slower than my quad core i5-3450 in Live

But maybe its because not all cores has been used...not sure

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Re: Why ableton is obsolete in multicore efficiency.

Post by Sage » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:03 am

jlgrimes wrote:
Donnie wrote:
Guillermo Barrancos wrote:And regarding Bitwig. It´s good for all of us. It would mean finally some competition against Ableton.
Right now Ableton Live has no real competition and hence Ableton´s grown arrogancy over the years.
They can do whatever they want, treat us how they want... as there is no rival product.
When Bitwig launches, that is finally going to change.
Totally agree, its time for someone to put a little pressure on Ableton. Something tells me that Bitwigs release is the first step in forcing Ableton to incorporate some of the commonly requested functionality that we haven't been seeing any movement on over the years. Competition is good!
Ableton still will have a good amount of time.

Bitwig won't be a viable threat until maybe 2.0. It popularity right now is mainly Ableton users than anything and 1.0 will have some feature omissions, bugs, and lack of 3rd party controller support until they really get a good userbase to really put their product to use in real life situations.

Don't know of really any DAW that gets it perfect on 1.0.

That said it will most likely put more pressure on the Abe's to make more improvements and innovations.
Will it though?

A lot of software when threatened with competition seem to resort to features that are more about bragging rights or keeping up with the Jones'. How many updates of DAWs have there been over recent years that have mostly just been upping the plugin count rather than addressing core issues within the DAW? Guitar amp sim software doing just the same and never seeking to improve the amp models, which often didn't even operate like the originals, let alone sounded like them.
It is hard to sell workflow so easily in a DAW as how many effects and synths it has, how big the sample packs are and all that.

kitekrazy
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Re: Why ableton is obsolete in multicore efficiency.

Post by kitekrazy » Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:32 am

ilya.soloviev wrote:
kitekrazy wrote:
lesha wrote:Live 9 uses only 4 out of my 6 cores... (AMD FX-6300) :roll:
Just curious, how are you liking that processor? I think about getting one because it seems a lot of bang for the buck.
A friend of mine have it. Its twice slower than my quad core i5-3450 in Live

But maybe its because not all cores has been used...not sure
Of course it's slower but the AMD costs much less. More cores are more beneficial working with video.

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