L9 vs L8 launch which was the most broken ?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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Did Live 9 fail harder than Live 8

Live 9 failed harder
10
31%
Live 8 failed harder
22
69%
 
Total votes: 32

Angstrom
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L9 vs L8 launch which was the most broken ?

Post by Angstrom » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:37 am

Ok, so after the L8 launch there was an uproar about how broken L8 was, and then a famously big Mea Culpa from Gerhard culminating in a suspension of work, and a big change at Ableton HQ. This was meant to deliver a robust and marvellous Live 9.

However, for me Live 9 pretty much doesn't work, it crashes a lot, it glitches when it does work, and most of the functionality does either the opposite of what I want, or makes me feel very uneasy while using it. The program seems fragile, flickery and unstable.

I want to love it, I want to use it. But it simply doesn't work for me.

Perhaps I'm unusual in that Live 8 always worked perfectly for me right out of the gate, it barely ever crashed and all the functions pretty much what they were meant to do. Some things were missing, and some things were weird, but the crossfades crossfaded and the Grooves grooved. All of it was pretty self explanatory. It loaded my old Library and off I went, making music.

However, for me, Live 9 barely works at all. It's very crashy and glitchy, and the new features are mainly removals of things I uses and the additions don't seem to work correctly. To me L9 is less "self explanatory" than it is "desperately needing explaining". Anyone doubting this, please tell me you have seen the thread where people discuss "is it safe to delete my Live 8 library". It's like watching people approach an unexploded bomb. Will my songs explode if I delete Live 8, will that take the Library, will my songs replace the presets, or just the samples? Nobody knows how the hell this thing works now, not least me, and communication about how it works is pretty much left up to the confused users.

To me this feels way way worse than Live 8's debacle, and I'm still using Live 8 because Live 9 repels my every attempt to use it. Trust me I have tried and tried.

So, vote.

I assume I am alone in thinking that L9 failed harder than L8, but I'm curious to see.

jlgrimes
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Re: L9 vs L8 launch which was the most broken ?

Post by jlgrimes » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:38 am

Angstrom wrote:Ok, so after the L8 launch there was an uproar about how broken L8 was, and then a famously big Mea Culpa from Gerhard culminating in a suspension of work, and a big change at Ableton HQ. This was meant to deliver a robust and marvellous Live 9.

However, for me Live 9 pretty much doesn't work, it crashes a lot, it glitches when it does work, and most of the functionality does either the opposite of what I want, or makes me feel very uneasy while using it. The program seems fragile, flickery and unstable.

I want to love it, I want to use it. But it simply doesn't work for me.

Perhaps I'm unusual in that Live 8 always worked perfectly for me right out of the gate, it barely ever crashed and all the functions pretty much what they were meant to do. Some things were missing, and some things were weird, but the crossfades crossfaded and the Grooves grooved. All of it was pretty self explanatory. It loaded my old Library and off I went, making music.

However, for me, Live 9 barely works at all. It's very crashy and glitchy, and the new features are mainly removals of things I uses and the additions don't seem to work correctly. To me L9 is less "self explanatory" than it is "desperately needing explaining". Anyone doubting this, please tell me you have seen the thread where people discuss "is it safe to delete my Live 8 library". It's like watching people approach an unexploded bomb. Will my songs explode if I delete Live 8, will that take the Library, will my songs replace the presets, or just the samples? Nobody knows how the hell this thing works now, not least me, and communication about how it works is pretty much left up to the confused users.

To me this feels way way worse than Live 8's debacle, and I'm still using Live 8 because Live 9 repels my every attempt to use it. Trust me I have tried and tried.

So, vote.

I assume I am alone in thinking that L9 failed harder than L8, but I'm curious to see.
Alots changed since Live 8 but I feel kind of mixed.

While I think Live 9 crashes more, for me Live 8 was almost unusable because I had a ridiculous amount of CPU use in Live 8 when it first launched

In the end I like version 9 better. It is not as fluid as Live 7 was but I think the Abe's will get it there.


That said I get occasional crashes in 9. In 8 I hardly had any crashes and the ones I do remember I was fully able to recover my work. This isn't the case with 9 when using plugins like Kontakt. The Abe's really need to refine that area because fully recoverable crashes was a big selling point for me.

I voted for 8 being worse because its CPU use made me stop using 8 pretty much once it came out and I went straight to Reason and I missed out on most of 8s bug fixes and improvements until I got a Mac which by that time 9 was in beta testing.
Last edited by jlgrimes on Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

OJ KARDASHIAN
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Re: L9 vs L8 launch which was the most broken ?

Post by OJ KARDASHIAN » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:43 am

i love apple updates,logic X,automaps,apple's AU policy,protools,bus tracks,rewire engine,rolling blackouts,a decent book, live 8.
F$&@ You KATO....OJ's favorite Mac shortcut is COMMAND-X (hahaha)

jlgrimes
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Re: L9 vs L8 launch which was the most broken ?

Post by jlgrimes » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:10 am

One thing I did do though was I got a really fast computer.

I got a maxed out Mac mini 2013. 16 gigs of ram. I7 processor. SSD drive.

This could be why I am not having much performance issues.

I hardly ever get CPU use over 50%.

I can imagine 9 probably being a hog on a slower machine but in my experience most programs have been pretty hoggy when going to 64 bit.



Reason 6 became pretty horrible when it went 64 bit.

Brock
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Re: L9 vs L8 launch which was the most broken ?

Post by Brock » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:14 am

For me, personally, Live 8 presented more debilitating issues on launch than Live 9 did. My two cents.

Evengy
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Re: L9 vs L8 launch which was the most broken ?

Post by Evengy » Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:59 am

generally: i have more problems with live 9. glitches on everything like creating midi + audio tracks, delete devices while something is playing, crashes on basic operations like press the record button, move a sample into my browser, closing the application and most of them are not reproducable but how should i trust a "live" software with such a behaviour?

personally i think they should set the focus in this order:
1) STABILITY STABILITY STABILITY
2) Performance
3) Features and other shit

is it really necessary to close live completely when a error occurs? maybe it´s because live is a old piece of software. look at the whole performance threads like logic x vs live 9 (multi threading)... i never had so much problems with a piece of software and i really want to love and use it too but it´s very hard to not sell or delete it directly. ableton bind myself to their company because of push and yeah the session view is important for future live performance. studio one runs very well and i will also try bitwig!

wildcon
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Re: L9 vs L8 launch which was the most broken ?

Post by wildcon » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:48 pm

personally i think they should set the focus in this order:
1) STABILITY STABILITY STABILITY
2) Performance
3) Features and other shit
Here F*cking Here! - Couldnt agree more.

I like Live 9 but it's crashing like a bastard for me.

To be honest all the enjoyment has gone from using Live for me. It's the constant thought that it will crash freeze or god knows what else!!! It really is an appaling state of affairs. I still use it for session view but that's it.

I moved to Logic Express and although complicated it was rock solid. I'm now on Logic Pro X and loving it :)

And don't get me started on the price!!!
MacBook Pro, High Sierra, Live 10, Logic Pro X, Komplete 12, Audio Damage, Fabfilter, Camel, Waves plugs.

Tarekith
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Re: L9 vs L8 launch which was the most broken ?

Post by Tarekith » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:54 pm

For me Live 8 was definitely the more buggy release, I've had only a couple crashes with Live 9 since it was officially released.

beats me
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Re: L9 vs L8 launch which was the most broken ?

Post by beats me » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:32 pm

I realize people have to report and stir up shit in order for Ableton to fix problems, but my advice is buying the new version when it makes financial sense for you to do so, but continue to primarily use the previous version if the latest version is close to release time.

Whatever track you were working on when you determined the latest version of Live is unusable isn’t going to elevate your career. Let it go and move back to the previous version until some fixes have been made.

beats me
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Re: L9 vs L8 launch which was the most broken ?

Post by beats me » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:37 pm

wildcon wrote:I moved to Logic Express and although complicated it was rock solid. I'm now on Logic Pro X and loving it :)

And don't get me started on the price!!!

My roommate is using Logic Express and has been lazy about upgrading to Pro for years. Did you notice any instant benefits when you upgraded to Pro X?

darkenedsoul
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Re: L9 vs L8 launch which was the most broken ?

Post by darkenedsoul » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:47 pm

The browser issue(s) still is cumbersome/bothersome in regards to having to add a folder for it to index everything in it. That is faster now (still not where it should be I think). Packs issue is totally whacked (posted in an older thread yesterday but haven't tried the other suggestion for 9.0.4 - I am probably not going to run that version anyways). At least in 9.0.5 they showed up and are accessible.

Crashes...haven't done a helluva lot so can't say just yet. I'm running on a Core2Duo 3.0Ghz 4Gb memory 7200 rpm drives (updated them recently). But with 9 running and just playing some audio I hear noise, like crackles and such. I need to play around some more with it to see if i can induce it. it happened with ProjectSAM orchestral then other stuff started doing the same, switching between sounds, etc...then I fudged my audio setup (motu 828mk II) but got that set back up yesterday. I don't think I heard any noise but again, I have to play around with it and all the changes in 9 to figure stuff out (or read more threads here).

But I think 9 failed more so than 8 out the gate (look how fast they pulled 9.0.3 for gods sake?!) and I don't recall how fast they updated 8.0.x initially either.

Mike
http://www.darkenedsoul.net - main website
Ableton Live 8.x/9.x : NI Komplete 8 : Home built 4690K 16GB 500GB SSD, 1TB 7200, 2x2TB.

dazzer
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Re: L9 vs L8 launch which was the most broken ?

Post by dazzer » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:48 am

beats me wrote:
wildcon wrote:I moved to Logic Express and although complicated it was rock solid. I'm now on Logic Pro X and loving it :)

And don't get me started on the price!!!

My roommate is using Logic Express and has been lazy about upgrading to Pro for years. Did you notice any instant benefits when you upgraded to Pro X?
Main benefit is when people ask you which DAW you use, you sound way cool and non-noobish.

Michael Hatsis
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Re: L9 vs L8 launch which was the most broken ?

Post by Michael Hatsis » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:54 am

Never had any problems w Live 8- as in none, zero, zilch, until 8.1 w mfl integration, without even opening up mfl had crashes all over the place. For a handful of versions after that Live was super buggy so I stayed on 8.09 and had no problems w that version -as in none, zero, zilch,.

Live 9 i dont think is that buggy for me either, but I dont use it as it just makes getting stuff done way more difficult. Also, loading and saving is super slow and don't want to deal w it. My philosophy is that if I can't make good music w Live 8, then it's not going to get much better w Live 9.


Mike

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Re: L9 vs L8 launch which was the most broken ?

Post by lunabass » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:01 am

i didn't vote either way as V8 & V9 have both been pretty rock solid for me. i didn't jump on board with V8 until 8.07 and by that stage knew about any of the browser issues so the transition was smooth. i've been on V9 right from the start without any issues either.

2 weeks ago i upgraded 15 imacs at our work to 9.0.4 and i've not had one crash in class so far. this is with students doing normal noob stuff and running 3rd party vsts like komplete and fabfilter.

i've got to say though, i really dislike the new browser. if i've gone into the studio and multi-tracked a bunch of stuff and then come home and plug the drive into my own system to start editing and mixing, i dont want to have to wait 15 minutes for it to index. i end up using finder to play audio instead of lives browser.

i hope you get your issues sorted angstrom, this place would be worse off without you
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photonal
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Re: L9 vs L8 launch which was the most broken ?

Post by photonal » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:28 am

Live 9 is absolutely the more stable release. It has occasionally crashed but nothing like the 'crashing-many-times-per-session' of Live 8. The Live 8 demo version used to crash so much it put me off upgrading from Live 7 until well into the later Live 8 versions.

On another note, Logic Pro X hasn't crashed on me yet - seems pretty rock solid.

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