How is this Desktop for my home studio??

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
MUNCHED
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:02 am

How is this Desktop for my home studio??

Post by MUNCHED » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:03 pm

im looking to upgrade my laptop which is draggin me back from things as its so slow to a macbook or imac but CANNOT affoard it and seen this in my local aldi...giving the specs is it good enough for my studio for a fair few years, i was hopefully goin to build a monster pc but this is a quad core and 3.2ghz so would it be worth it, ill be buying 2 x new monitors

https://www.aldi.ie/en/specialbuys/thur ... esktop-pc/

the price of it in sterling is £344

any help thanks!!!
windows vista, intel core 2 duo 3.06 ghz, 4 gig ram,Ableton 8, Xone 4D, traktor scratch PRO!!

Tagor
Posts: 939
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:18 am

Re: How is this Desktop for my home studio??

Post by Tagor » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:27 pm

not enough ram, nobody knows the speed of the hd, AMD i dont trust and 8 channel high def audio is for the trashcan.

anyway its a good price for what you get, but smash 200 E more into separate parts and you will be much happier.

thinks like this:
150 € for ram http://www.amazon.de/Kingston-KHX24C11T ... rds=16+ram
150 for mainboard http://www.amazon.de/Gigabyte-GA-Z77X-U ... omputers_4
300 for processor http://www.amazon.de/Intel-i7-3770K-Pro ... omputers_2
and maybe a ssd hardrive http://www.amazon.de/Samsung-Series-int ... ywords=ssd

MUNCHED
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:02 am

Re: How is this Desktop for my home studio??

Post by MUNCHED » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:54 pm

i think ill build a monster instead!! thanks
windows vista, intel core 2 duo 3.06 ghz, 4 gig ram,Ableton 8, Xone 4D, traktor scratch PRO!!

Theo Void
Posts: 1021
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:00 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact:

Re: How is this Desktop for my home studio??

Post by Theo Void » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:44 pm

I'd be really wary of buying a computer from Aldi's.

login
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:41 am

Re: How is this Desktop for my home studio??

Post by login » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:50 pm

AMD: No for audio, doesn't deliver enough performance compared to intel.

I dont know UK prices but with 800 USD you could built something nice.

Hermanus
Posts: 1648
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:47 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: How is this Desktop for my home studio??

Post by Hermanus » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:18 pm

+1 to everything above


avoid :idea:

Theo Void
Posts: 1021
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:00 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: How is this Desktop for my home studio??

Post by Theo Void » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:47 pm

Not sure if you're aware but we have Aldi's around my way and it's a generic, cheap, ghetto grocery store. Sometime's they sell other random shit too. I won't even buy milk, pringles, and especially meat from there. To buy a computer from them is borderline retarded. Trust me on this one.

Sional
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:36 pm

Re: How is this Desktop for my home studio??

Post by Sional » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:01 pm

For music 8GB of ram is plenty and you don't need anything too fancy (e.g Corsair vengeance). An i5 3570 cpu and a basic Z77 chipset motherboard (e.g. Gigabyte D3H) are more than adequate and I would recommend a 120Gb Intel ssd as opposed to a hard drive. You don't need a graphics card but think about a decent power supply (e.g. Antec) and a case with quiet fans and a good (and quiet) cpu cooler. With the pennies you save on your computer build buy the best quality soundcard you can afford.

naujpablo
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:28 am

Re: How is this Desktop for my home studio??

Post by naujpablo » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:01 am

Don't pick the AMD A8 CPU, or any AMD A"something" processor, they are made for other purposes because of the integrated graphics and are not developed to deliver pure processing power. Right now, your best bet is to make your own PC with an Intel processor, they are leading the game in terms of performance right now.

kitekrazy
Posts: 731
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:16 pm

Re: How is this Desktop for my home studio??

Post by kitekrazy » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:54 pm

login wrote:AMD: No for audio, doesn't deliver enough performance compared to intel.

I dont know UK prices but with 800 USD you could built something nice.

Intels out perform AMD, no doubt but spending $300 for a CPU vs. the nice offerings of AMD for under $150 that will handle all software makes AMD a great choice for a budget. Since AMD took a break from designing desktop CPUs, Intel has become over priced again.

102455
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Re: How is this Desktop for my home studio??

Post by 102455 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:26 pm

kitekrazy wrote:AMD for under $150 that will handle all software
That's the problem. They don't "handle all software". They don't handle all hardware either. Or rather, some soft/hardware does not work with AMD.

If you want to avoid compatibility issues then buy Intel.

login
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:41 am

Re: How is this Desktop for my home studio??

Post by login » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:04 pm

inb4 buy a mac

Theo Void
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: How is this Desktop for my home studio??

Post by Theo Void » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:47 am

Image

miekwave
Posts: 752
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:49 pm
Location: Austin, TX
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Re: How is this Desktop for my home studio??

Post by miekwave » Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:27 am

MUNCHED wrote:im looking to upgrade my laptop which is draggin me back from things as its so slow to a macbook or imac but CANNOT affoard it and seen this in my local aldi...giving the specs is it good enough for my studio for a fair few years, i was hopefully goin to build a monster pc but this is a quad core and 3.2ghz so would it be worth it, ill be buying 2 x new monitors

https://www.aldi.ie/en/specialbuys/thur ... esktop-pc/

the price of it in sterling is £344

any help thanks!!!
Depends on how you intend to use Ableton Live
16 Track Build
If you are running fewer than 16 tracks with minimal reverb plug ins, then an AMD Quad FX4350 or Octo Core FX-8350 + 8 GB ram should suffice.

24 Track Build
If you are going 17-24 tracks with more plug ins, Kontact sampling, an Intel Haswell i5 4670k + 8 should be adequate.

36 Track Build
If you are running 25-36 tracks, lots of plug ins, lots of Kontact type sampling, lots of reverbs, then a Haswell i7 4770k, 16-32GB ram is a must have

40+ Track Build
If you are running 37+ tracks, lots of instrument plug ins, lots of VST processing, and using Kontakt player with greater than 250 voices playing with one or more SSD drives and lots of reverbs and low latency, you will want a Dual Configured Intel Xeon setup at least 2.4 GHZ Intel Xeon E5-2640 (12 threads), E5-2667 (12 Threads), E5-2670 (16 threads) and 32-64GB ram

Projects/Sampling and Ram
Ram, most ram is adequate, however ECC ram is more reliable for sample playback. You might not notice a difference if you are playing fewer than 50 voices in your Sampler program such as Ableton Packs or Kontakt player, but once you hit the 200+ voices you will want to use ECC ram, which will help prevent clicks and pops form your streaming sample. Having said that, the error instance is low, but increases by a factor of 10 when you play a bunch of layered sampled (over 200 voices).

8GB ram should be your bare minimum ram.

Kingston makes the best/most reliable ram on the market for DAW PC (imo). Only get the 1333 or 1600 ram, don't bother with the 2300+ rated ram unless you want to play CPU hungry games; as those can over heat and require additional cooling (and noise). Kingston LOVOLTAGE SODIMM ram is only nano/micro seconds slower than normal ram, (which your DAW and Humans cant perceive a difference) and has the best cooling. If you drive 2300+ ram or CPU hard enough you can cause a fire.

Top SSD Drives
The best Drives on the market for loading projects and samples are the Intel 550 Series, Samsung 840 Pro Series, and the Crucial M500 series (imo). For example, if you have Native Instruments Komplete, a Samsung 840 Pro 512 GB will suit you very well. If you want to get EWQL library, the Samsung serves you well as well. For Projects, you can't go wrong with a Crucial M500 960GB. Defrag SSD drives at 20% defragmentation using Auslogics Disc Defrag

If you want to go cheaper, get nothing less than Western Digital Caviar BLACK for your projects drive. Put dual Caviar BLACK in Raid 0 for optimal performance. Defrag the drive at 10% fragmentation.

If you are using greater than 16 tracks, DO NOT put your Ableton projects on the same OS drive, you will kill your hard drive faster than you can say BSOD.

Cooling Solutions
If you intend to go nuts with ultra low latency + VST + Reverb plug ins, you need Corsair H60 cooling solution, as the realtime load of these plug ins heat up your processor. If you are using a "K" series Intel processor you can ridiculously over clock it for massive realtime Plug in usage at 64-128 sample buffer latency.

Rule of thumb - Lower Buffer Latency = Hotter CPU. This is due to the compounding realtime between the time it takes the sound to load and playback (and be processed). Higher biffer settings (say 512 samples) is adequate for most processors.

Windows Home or Pro?
OS: You need Windows 7/8 PROFESSIONAL to use greater than 16GB ram, otherwise you can use the standard home version.

Power Supply:
AMD or i5
Get a power supply rated at 500W (80Plus Bronze will suffice)

i7 or Xeon or with High end Graphics card
Get a power supply that is 800W+ rated 80+Gold or better. You want a Gold rated power supply because anything less than that builds up a lot of heat.

Fans
Silent PC does not mean most effective PC. Be sur your PC has SIDE panel, Front and Rear ventilation with fans. Low RPM fans will suffice and usually do not make (too much) noise.

PC position
Be sure to have at least 4-6 inches air space for the PC to circulate air. The Hotter your CPU gets the faster the lifespan depletes and more error prone it can become.

OS Optimisation
While using Ableton Live (or any DAW for that matter), be sure to disable Real-Time antivirus protection, especially if you are using a traditional HDD 7200RPM disc. Also disable internet connectivity where convenient. Disable as much bloatware (auto startup applications) as possible.

Firewire/Usb
Be sure to get a dedicated USB 2.0 hub that is tabletop friendly and label each port as not to confuse windows port IDs when you connect the wrong device in a designated slot.

A Dedicated Firewire 400/800 card is usually more reliable than the Motherboard version

Video:
Purchase a separate video card to relieve CPU usage. Haswell and Ivy bridge chips have built in integrated graphics, do not use it if you have a Video card. This will give you an extra 3-10% CPU headroom.

File Management
This one is up to you. What I do is Install an Ableton Live program and packs into my C: drive. Then I Install it on my Samsung SSD drive and copy the packs over. The reason I do this is so that I can have quicker installs and load times.

Warranty
It;s always a good idea to purchase at least 2 years warranty. It might cost somewhere in the ball park of $100 a year, but the added insurance will be appreciated.Murphys law applies to PC's Trust me... I have deviced fail on me when I didn't purchase a warranty, but those I did never failed, lol

CacheVault (advanced)
CacheVault PCI solutions allow you to tremendously improve access times for projects and samples. You should only use CacheVault if you intend to go beyond 50+ tracks and over 250 voices.


Go Internal
Have as many components/disc drives built into your PC as possible without resorting to USB/Firewire. Your controllers will obviously be external.

Audio Interface
PCI cards give you the highest resolution, most tracks, and lowest possible latencies. This is useful for 32+ track projects. You can get away with 48-64 Sample Buffer with a PCI card at high track counts as high resolution.
Firewire Solutions give you flexibility with I/O trackcounts and you can get away with 128 samples without hicking up.
USB audio solutions are usually less reliable than Firewire when it comes to massive trackcount and 256 sample buffer should suffice on most USB interfaces.

Backup Solution
Western Digital Caviar Green 2.0 / 3.0 TB drives are very reliable Backup media drives.

Dedicated Page File/ Temp Files , Cache Drive
Western Digital RED drives are designed for continuous access and work as perfect temp folder/cache memory drives. Most 120 GB SSD also work as well. (a SSD with a 50GB pagefile will make ram exchange super fast and transparent). Do not mix a Temp/Cache drive with other drives.

Good luck!
Check out some of my soundtracks. Also Ableton Live Performance video.

ImageImage

Gringostar
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:26 am

Re: How is this Desktop for my home studio??

Post by Gringostar » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:05 am


Depends on how you intend to use Ableton Live
16 Track Build
If you are running fewer than 16 tracks with minimal reverb plug ins, then an AMD Quad FX4350 or Octo Core FX-8350 + 8 GB ram should suffice.

24 Track Build
If you are going 17-24 tracks with more plug ins, Kontact sampling, an Intel Haswell i5 4670k + 8 should be adequate.

36 Track Build
If you are running 25-36 tracks, lots of plug ins, lots of Kontact type sampling, lots of reverbs, then a Haswell i7 4770k, 16-32GB ram is a must have

40+ Track Build
If you are running 37+ tracks, lots of instrument plug ins, lots of VST processing, and using Kontakt player with greater than 250 voices playing with one or more SSD drives and lots of reverbs and low latency, you will want a Dual Configured Intel Xeon setup at least 2.4 GHZ Intel Xeon E5-2640 (12 threads), E5-2667 (12 Threads), E5-2670 (16 threads) and 32-64GB ram

Projects/Sampling and Ram
Ram, most ram is adequate, however ECC ram is more reliable for sample playback. You might not notice a difference if you are playing fewer than 50 voices in your Sampler program such as Ableton Packs or Kontakt player, but once you hit the 200+ voices you will want to use ECC ram, which will help prevent clicks and pops form your streaming sample. Having said that, the error instance is low, but increases by a factor of 10 when you play a bunch of layered sampled (over 200 voices).

8GB ram should be your bare minimum ram.

Kingston makes the best/most reliable ram on the market for DAW PC (imo). Only get the 1333 or 1600 ram, don't bother with the 2300+ rated ram unless you want to play CPU hungry games; as those can over heat and require additional cooling (and noise). Kingston LOVOLTAGE SODIMM ram is only nano/micro seconds slower than normal ram, (which your DAW and Humans cant perceive a difference) and has the best cooling. If you drive 2300+ ram or CPU hard enough you can cause a fire.

Top SSD Drives
The best Drives on the market for loading projects and samples are the Intel 550 Series, Samsung 840 Pro Series, and the Crucial M500 series (imo). For example, if you have Native Instruments Komplete, a Samsung 840 Pro 512 GB will suit you very well. If you want to get EWQL library, the Samsung serves you well as well. For Projects, you can't go wrong with a Crucial M500 960GB. Defrag SSD drives at 20% defragmentation using Auslogics Disc Defrag

If you want to go cheaper, get nothing less than Western Digital Caviar BLACK for your projects drive. Put dual Caviar BLACK in Raid 0 for optimal performance. Defrag the drive at 10% fragmentation.

If you are using greater than 16 tracks, DO NOT put your Ableton projects on the same OS drive, you will kill your hard drive faster than you can say BSOD.

Cooling Solutions
If you intend to go nuts with ultra low latency + VST + Reverb plug ins, you need Corsair H60 cooling solution, as the realtime load of these plug ins heat up your processor. If you are using a "K" series Intel processor you can ridiculously over clock it for massive realtime Plug in usage at 64-128 sample buffer latency.

Rule of thumb - Lower Buffer Latency = Hotter CPU. This is due to the compounding realtime between the time it takes the sound to load and playback (and be processed). Higher biffer settings (say 512 samples) is adequate for most processors.

Windows Home or Pro?
OS: You need Windows 7/8 PROFESSIONAL to use greater than 16GB ram, otherwise you can use the standard home version.

Power Supply:
AMD or i5
Get a power supply rated at 500W (80Plus Bronze will suffice)

i7 or Xeon or with High end Graphics card
Get a power supply that is 800W+ rated 80+Gold or better. You want a Gold rated power supply because anything less than that builds up a lot of heat.

Fans
Silent PC does not mean most effective PC. Be sur your PC has SIDE panel, Front and Rear ventilation with fans. Low RPM fans will suffice and usually do not make (too much) noise.

PC position
Be sure to have at least 4-6 inches air space for the PC to circulate air. The Hotter your CPU gets the faster the lifespan depletes and more error prone it can become.

OS Optimisation
While using Ableton Live (or any DAW for that matter), be sure to disable Real-Time antivirus protection, especially if you are using a traditional HDD 7200RPM disc. Also disable internet connectivity where convenient. Disable as much bloatware (auto startup applications) as possible.

Firewire/Usb
Be sure to get a dedicated USB 2.0 hub that is tabletop friendly and label each port as not to confuse windows port IDs when you connect the wrong device in a designated slot.

A Dedicated Firewire 400/800 card is usually more reliable than the Motherboard version

Video:
Purchase a separate video card to relieve CPU usage. Haswell and Ivy bridge chips have built in integrated graphics, do not use it if you have a Video card. This will give you an extra 3-10% CPU headroom.

File Management
This one is up to you. What I do is Install an Ableton Live program and packs into my C: drive. Then I Install it on my Samsung SSD drive and copy the packs over. The reason I do this is so that I can have quicker installs and load times.

Warranty
It;s always a good idea to purchase at least 2 years warranty. It might cost somewhere in the ball park of $100 a year, but the added insurance will be appreciated.Murphys law applies to PC's Trust me... I have deviced fail on me when I didn't purchase a warranty, but those I did never failed, lol

CacheVault (advanced)
CacheVault PCI solutions allow you to tremendously improve access times for projects and samples. You should only use CacheVault if you intend to go beyond 50+ tracks and over 250 voices.


Go Internal
Have as many components/disc drives built into your PC as possible without resorting to USB/Firewire. Your controllers will obviously be external.

Audio Interface
PCI cards give you the highest resolution, most tracks, and lowest possible latencies. This is useful for 32+ track projects. You can get away with 48-64 Sample Buffer with a PCI card at high track counts as high resolution.
Firewire Solutions give you flexibility with I/O trackcounts and you can get away with 128 samples without hicking up.
USB audio solutions are usually less reliable than Firewire when it comes to massive trackcount and 256 sample buffer should suffice on most USB interfaces.

Backup Solution
Western Digital Caviar Green 2.0 / 3.0 TB drives are very reliable Backup media drives.

Dedicated Page File/ Temp Files , Cache Drive
Western Digital RED drives are designed for continuous access and work as perfect temp folder/cache memory drives. Most 120 GB SSD also work as well. (a SSD with a 50GB pagefile will make ram exchange super fast and transparent). Do not mix a Temp/Cache drive with other drives.

Good luck!
Thx for this! helps me a lot on my new studio pc build.
I have Corsair Vengeance Low Profile Blue DDR3 PC12800/1600MHz CL9 4x4GB I dont think they are ecc. can I use them or do i need to buy other ones?
cheers.

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