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Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:26 pm
by kitekrazy
I'm in the boat of "WTH? Get 'em all!".

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:17 pm
by login
All those synths are excellent. BUt from NI I would get Reaktor, and then DIVA and Zebra from U-he.

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:38 pm
by deva
glitchrock-buddha wrote:
But I still don't understand comparing these combinations. Those NI synths can be bought pretty cheap (especially in Komplete). The U-He ones don't lose much value. You'll pay much more for those U-He synths. I would judge each synth individually and mix and match.
Komplete is not cheap... it is just a good value for the amount of stuff.

Also, the best value for the dollar over time for me has been Zebra. I purchased at the initial v2 and it has had 2-3 paid updates worth of improvements without any additional cost. The average cost for an Absynth update for each version upgrade has been about $115 each time. So over the long term, Zebra has been far cheaper than Absynth.

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:43 pm
by deva
glitchrock-buddha wrote:
aronf13 wrote: - which group of synths covers more ground in terms of types of synthesis?
NI
I disagree with that...

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:59 pm
by glitchrock-buddha
deva wrote:
glitchrock-buddha wrote:
But I still don't understand comparing these combinations. Those NI synths can be bought pretty cheap (especially in Komplete). The U-He ones don't lose much value. You'll pay much more for those U-He synths. I would judge each synth individually and mix and match.
Komplete is not cheap... it is just a good value for the amount of stuff.

Also, the best value for the dollar over time for me has been Zebra. I purchased at the initial v2 and it has had 2-3 paid updates worth of improvements without any additional cost. The average cost for an Absynth update for each version upgrade has been about $115 each time. So over the long term, Zebra has been far cheaper than Absynth.
Fair enough about zebra updates being free etc. but I'm talking about the current versions of absynth, massive and fm8. I said that the price of those synths are very cheap, not that komplete was. You can get them second hand individually or in a second hand earlier komplete for a couple hundred. Mu rasier to find second hand than u-he stuff. But even the latest komplete runs about the same as buying zebra, diva and ace new.

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:06 pm
by glitchrock-buddha
deva wrote:
glitchrock-buddha wrote:
aronf13 wrote: - which group of synths covers more ground in terms of types of synthesis?
NI
I disagree with that...
Diva and zebra are two of my favorite synths. But 2 vintage VA emulations and zebra against Absynth, with all its synthesis methods, massive and FM8? Sorry I don't really think a case can be made that those three u-he synths offer as many synthesis types. This isn't really a matter of preference or quality.

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:41 pm
by 3dot...
Komplete has the top hand in almost everything
FM8 covers all FM you'll ever need...
Absynth is unique in so many ways.. perfect for ambience and soundscapes but also amazing for VA
Reaktor has crazy synths and fx..
Kontakt is a behemoth of a sampler...
Massive to me is more reminiscent of Access 'Virus' (/end of 90's hardware VAs)
^^^ these 5 also sound superb and are extremely deep
(and also much more forgiving on the cpu)
oh and also NI preset management system is much more user friendly

I really like U-he ACE a lot... much better than Massive for VA
for some reason I don't vibe with the rest of his stuff (except for the free 'triple cheeze' synth yumm)...
MFM2 is also very cool!

I would think Spectrasonics vs. NI...(in terms of range)

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:52 pm
by IP
is there anyone who doesn't own even ONE ni synth? (except me)

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:08 pm
by gnurf
IP wrote:is there anyone who doesn't own even ONE ni synth? (except me)
I met the other guy. He's correcting it.

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:09 am
by deva
glitchrock-buddha wrote:
deva wrote:
glitchrock-buddha wrote:
But I still don't understand comparing these combinations. Those NI synths can be bought pretty cheap (especially in Komplete). The U-He ones don't lose much value. You'll pay much more for those U-He synths. I would judge each synth individually and mix and match.
Komplete is not cheap... it is just a good value for the amount of stuff.

Also, the best value for the dollar over time for me has been Zebra. I purchased at the initial v2 and it has had 2-3 paid updates worth of improvements without any additional cost. The average cost for an Absynth update for each version upgrade has been about $115 each time. So over the long term, Zebra has been far cheaper than Absynth.
Fair enough about zebra updates being free etc. but I'm talking about the current versions of absynth, massive and fm8. I said that the price of those synths are very cheap, not that komplete was. You can get them second hand individually or in a second hand earlier komplete for a couple hundred. Mu rasier to find second hand than u-he stuff. But even the latest komplete runs about the same as buying zebra, diva and ace new.
Yes, and when you want Absynth 6, 7, 8... it will cost you a lot more than future Zebra updates... Zebra 2 --> Zebra 3 will be a paid update. Urs said he was planning to charge $30 and that is because it is a re-write. From Zebra 2 --> Zebra 2.6 (current) has as many new features as Absynth 2 --> Absynth 5 and there was no charge at all with Zebra while Absynth was $300 in upgrade cost.

Purchasing Zebra today you are investing in a synth that receives regular and significant upgrades, usually at no charge. Diva is just about to have an update from v1.2 --> 1.3. But that includes a new Oberheim filter, JP8000 digital osc module, and a powerful new arp/sequencer combo that is unique and innovative. A .1 upgrade that has enough to be a paid upgrade and it is free.

Komplete is a great value for what you get, but it still aint cheap and then you are on the Komplete wagon and upgrade cost adds up over time.

My point is that while the initial cost difference looks big, over time it evens out cause you do not keep paying with U-he stuff.

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:31 am
by deva
glitchrock-buddha wrote:
deva wrote:
glitchrock-buddha wrote:
NI
I disagree with that...
Diva and zebra are two of my favorite synths. But 2 vintage VA emulations and zebra against Absynth, with all its synthesis methods, massive and FM8? Sorry I don't really think a case can be made that those three u-he synths offer as many synthesis types. This isn't really a matter of preference or quality.
Sure a case can be made... at least that they are comparable...

ACE can do all sorts of audio rate modulations that none of the 3 NI synths can do.
Diva models classic analogue synths and none of the 3 NI synths do that. (component modeling is a form of synthesis too)
Zebra has additive synthesis where the user can draw partials and its comb modules are rather unique... Zebra is modular in a way none of the 3 NI synths are which is a kind of synthesis method in itself.

That is a lot of stuff that the NI synths do not do... and make a DX style FM sound in ACE and it makes FM8 sound so pale and weak by comparison. Which is to say that the extra cpu cost was used to good end which to me is an advancement in synthesis methods... but not a glitzy sounding feature. btw, I own Absynth, Massive and FM8 as well as Zebra, Diva and ACE...

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:45 am
by OJ KARDASHIAN
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Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:40 am
by glitchrock-buddha
deva wrote:
glitchrock-buddha wrote:
deva wrote:
Komplete is not cheap... it is just a good value for the amount of stuff.

Also, the best value for the dollar over time for me has been Zebra. I purchased at the initial v2 and it has had 2-3 paid updates worth of improvements without any additional cost. The average cost for an Absynth update for each version upgrade has been about $115 each time. So over the long term, Zebra has been far cheaper than Absynth.
Fair enough about zebra updates being free etc. but I'm talking about the current versions of absynth, massive and fm8. I said that the price of those synths are very cheap, not that komplete was. You can get them second hand individually or in a second hand earlier komplete for a couple hundred. Mu rasier to find second hand than u-he stuff. But even the latest komplete runs about the same as buying zebra, diva and ace new.
Yes, and when you want Absynth 6, 7, 8... it will cost you a lot more than future Zebra updates... Zebra 2 --> Zebra 3 will be a paid update. Urs said he was planning to charge $30 and that is because it is a re-write. From Zebra 2 --> Zebra 2.6 (current) has as many new features as Absynth 2 --> Absynth 5 and there was no charge at all with Zebra while Absynth was $300 in upgrade cost.

Purchasing Zebra today you are investing in a synth that receives regular and significant upgrades, usually at no charge. Diva is just about to have an update from v1.2 --> 1.3. But that includes a new Oberheim filter, JP8000 digital osc module, and a powerful new arp/sequencer combo that is unique and innovative. A .1 upgrade that has enough to be a paid upgrade and it is free.

Komplete is a great value for what you get, but it still aint cheap and then you are on the Komplete wagon and upgrade cost adds up over time.

My point is that while the initial cost difference looks big, over time it evens out cause you do not keep paying with U-he stuff.
Yeah I agree with all that. U-He synths are the better investment as standalone products no doubt. Komplete is still impossible to beat for value though.

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:32 pm
by XSIMan
U-he wins by miles on sound quality and they are always updated.
Since ACE and DIVA came out they have both had multicore support added. On my computer this brings the CPU metere from 60% - 15%

Diva very soon will get an ARP / sequencer, Oberheim filter + Roland JP-8000 oscillator module for free. That's going to make DIVA the ultimate supersaw synth.

Dark Zebra will get Oberheim filter added for free.

Hans Zimmer scores with Dark Zebra

Re: 3 native instruments synths vs 3 u-he synths

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:13 pm
by deva
glitchrock-buddha wrote:
Yeah I agree with all that. U-He synths are the better investment as standalone products no doubt. Komplete is still impossible to beat for value though.

Komplete is an unbeatable deal if you use most of the stuff... Much of what is there I would rarely or never use... so then for me, it is not such a great value.